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Thread: Ladies LP, 11/19/11

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I think people ought to take things one competition/one season at a time. Right now Liza is doing well. Good for her. Her jump technique is second to none. Her confidence is amazing.

    But is she perfect? No. As I pointed out in my score breakdown, while totally crushing the competition in jumps, she's actually not superior in non-jump elements, and one could argue is just average (given that she was in the top of the bottom half). That is why she has lost the LP both times to two skaters who have strength in part/or all of that arena.

    What wil hold the future as she grows older. Nobody knows. She is just Liza.

    But for now, two wins in the GP is something to be proud of.
    Thank you. I agree completely. Not sure why it's all doom and gloom.

  2. #137
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Don't Understand

    I can't see what all the "hoopla" is about for Kostner. To me IMO she is a clutz. She reminds me of Slutskaya who also was clumsy. At Skate Canada (I believe) she actually stopped the flow of the program with stumbles here and there. Maybe it's because she's Italian and the judges who are beholden to Cinquanta who's also Italian, give her high marks. She does not deserve those high PCS. Oh, yes, I know I'll be jumped on all over the place for this but its my opinion.

  3. #138
    Tripping on the Podium
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    And that is why I reserve judgement till post puberty. And hope that these "phenoms" make it through relatively unscathed.

  4. #139
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    By the way, has anyone noticed how expressive Liza's arms are? They're always moving, in tune with the music. You can see the emotion from her deltoid to the very tips of her fingers. I don't think I've ever seen anyone like that before. I love it!

  5. #140
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havefun View Post
    OC .... Followed up by Baiul - rehab for alcoholism when reality kicked in. Lipinski.....hip replacement, never to be able to skate again as a result of overuse on developing growth plates. Yep...quite the recipe for a healthy future. Not to add they may be the least celebrated Olympic champions in the sport.
    Is there a possibility that this wont apply to Liza, like it hasnt applied to a lot of the top skaters? Are you saying Liza will go either too big to skate, or will become OC but alcoholic or will have hip replacement?
    If that so, I d better celebrate her wins even more, now there is still time!!

  6. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by havefun View Post
    OC .... Followed up by Baiul - rehab for alcoholism when reality kicked in. Lipinski.....hip replacement, never to be able to skate again as a result of overuse on developing growth plates. Yep...quite the recipe for a healthy future. Not to add they may be the least celebrated Olympic champions in the sport.
    Let's remember that Baiul was an orphane. There might have been a lot more then skating that lead to alcoholism. The three others you mentioned all suffered from bad technique, and in Zhang/Meissner's cases bad basics.

    Look at Kim, Kwan, Slutskaya, Witt, etc. There are so many talented juniors that have had wonderful senior careers, and these three are examples of ladies who had very solid technique and basics when they were younger.

    If the technique is there and the basic skating skills are solid, then you have a good chance at improving from where you are.

  7. #142
    Custom Title ordinary person's Avatar
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    I agree with havefun, Liza has yet to grow cause considering the circumstances right now she has a weight advantage as well which isn't really fair.
    I'm really curious how she will do after she has become 15 and doesn't weigh 78 pounds or something.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by ordinary person View Post
    I agree with havefun, Liza has yet to grow cause considering the circumstances right now she has a weight advantage as well which isn't really fair.
    What isn't fair? Every skater has been 14 at some point. And there are many who were actually better technically after puberty, including Arakawa, Kim, Slutskaya, Butyrskaya, Harding, etc. Caro and Alyssa didn't lose because Liza is 78 lbs, they lost because each needed one more triple to catch her.

  9. #144
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo1 View Post
    I can't see what all the "hoopla" is about for Kostner. To me IMO she is a clutz. She reminds me of Slutskaya who also was clumsy.
    I would LOVE to be as klutzy and clumsy as Caro and Irina!

  10. #145
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    It is not fair for whO??
    She will become 15 in December , how much weight can she gain in 3 weeks?
    She has grown a lot since last season, and has nice proportions, not all arms and legs so far.

  11. #146
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    I agree with HaveFun. I can't get too excited about Tuktamysheva at this point because it's so very obvious that she is not physically mature yet. She is just a little kid skating against young women. Of course she can land triple/triples more easily than Czisny and Kostner! She weighs probably 20 lbs less than they do!! Tukt seems very very talented, but I won't get too excited until she passes through puberty and can still land that triple Lutz/triple toe, a la Yu-Na Kim. Then I'll be excited.

    FWIW, I disagree with the rules allowing Tukt to compete in the Grand Prix at all. I felt the same in 2005 when Mao Asada came on the scene. I think the age rules for the Grand Prix, Worlds, and Olympics should be the same in any given season. It makes no sense for it to be otherwise.

    I just don't agree with the whole concept of having little girls compete against women, in figure skating or any other sport. To me, it seems unfair to both groups. It puts pressure on young girls to perform difficult elements too soon, often leading to serious injuries (such as Baiul's back injury post-Olympics and Lipinski's hip breakdown). And it's unfair to require young women with healthy, mature female bodies to compete against prepubescent kids who are obviously at a huge advantage when it comes to doing multiple rotations, twists, etc. I agree with HaveFun that, if anything, I would prefer to see the age limits raised.

    Quote Originally Posted by havefun View Post
    Actually it is quite meaningless that a 14 year old wins over ladies. Has been done before. Jury is out until post puberty. Just an FYI. It is quite well known in skating circles that these young Russian girls have some funky eating habits going on. Without getting into details...it ain't pretty.

    No sour grapes intended however it can be quite a shock to a childs self esteem, when puberty sets in and their bodies are unable to perform the "tricks" of pre puberty. I am glad the age rules are in place. I would actually prefer to see the age increased. I think it would give these kids time to develop in a healthy way in order to fulfill their long term potential and stay physically and mentally healthy.

    Examples of this overhyped "phenom" scenario - Lipinski, Baiul, Zhang, Meisner......to name but a few.

  12. #147
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I like Czisny's new jump layout. Assuming the third element is supposed to be 2A+3T, this gives her a solid six triple layout that is within her reach.

    Murakami is playing the game well, too. By doing 3Lo+2A seq and 3F+2A seq she can work in seven triples without a triple-triple. Plus, if she misses one of her sequences she has the other to back it up, making sure she gets in the 2A and does't lose a pass.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I like Czisny's new jump layout. Assuming the third element is supposed to be 2A+3T, this gives her a solid six triple layout that is within her reach.

    Murakami is playing the game well, too. By doing 3Lo+2A seq and 3F+2A seq she can work in seven triples without a triple-triple. Plus, if she misses one of her sequences she has the other to back it up, making sure she gets in the 2A and does't lose a pass.
    That wouldn't work currently b/c she is doing 2 Lutzs and 2 Loops. The only way she could do a 2A-3T if she brings back the 3S. I think the 3L-2T was supposed to be a three jump combo.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    That wouldn't work currently b/c she is doing 2 Lutzs and 2 Loops. The only way she could do a 2A-3T if she brings back the 3S. I think the 3L-2T was supposed to be a three jump combo.
    I think it's OK to do two triple Lutzes, two triple loops, and two double Axels(?) The triple toe is OK because she doesn't have another one in her program, right?

  15. #150
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I think people ought to take things one competition/one season at a time. Right now Liza is doing well. Good for her. Her jump technique is second to none. Her confidence is amazing.

    But is she perfect? No. As I pointed out in my score breakdown, while totally crushing the competition in jumps, she's actually not superior in non-jump elements, and one could argue is just average (given that she was in the top of the bottom half). That is why she has lost the LP both times to two skaters who have strength in part/or all of that arena.

    What wil hold the future as she grows older. Nobody knows. She is just Liza.

    But for now, two wins in the GP is something to be proud of.
    Thank you, well said!

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