Article by Janet Lynn

[Mathman]

I don't know whether the skating is better or worse in one system than another. That's not what's wrong with ythe IJS.

What wrong is that under the CoP the spectator has been taken out of the game. With 6.0, when the scores came down and six of the nine judges gave their opinion that skater A was the winner, the spectator could say, "Oh yeah? Well I have an opinion, too, buster!"

Now the experts-plus-computer says Skater A 168.23, Skater B 154.89, and all I can say is, What a fool I am, I liked the other guy better.

Nobody enjoys having his ignorance thrown up in his face. And no one likes being told superciliously, "If you don't like it, go read the rule book, chump."

[Tonichelle]

I don't know whether the skating is better or worse in one system than another. That's not what's wrong with ythe IJS.

What wrong is that under the CoP the spectator has been taken out of the game. With 6.0, when the scores came down and six of the nine judges gave their opinion that skater A was the winner, the spectator could say, "Oh yeah? Well I have an opinion, too, buster!"

Now the experts-plus-computer says Skater A 168.23, Skater B 154.89, and all I can say is, What a fool I am, I liked the other guy better.

Nobody enjoys having his ignorance thrown up in his face. And no one likes being told superciliously, "If you don't like it, go read the rule book, chump."

huh... not once have I felt that way... and no I don't read the rule book, and I don't always get it right.

[drivingmissdaisy]

Mathman, I do get a sense that the ISU, and even some of the fans on the message boards, don't really care to cater to the casual fans. The judging system is so complex that many commentators (at least in the US) don't even understand it. I certainly don't think the scoring should be dumbed down but I do feel like it is necessary for me to read message boards to see why skater A beat skater B.

[Tonichelle]

the commentators that "don't get it" were the ones against it from the start... there are other commentators in teh US that do take it seriously and get it... Paul Wylie, for example, seemed to have a great understanding of it from day one.

[demarinis5]

^OT: Toni I love your Avatar!

[SkateFiguring]

Mathman, I do get a sense that the ISU, and even some of the fans on the message boards, don't really care to cater to the casual fans. The judging system is so complex that many commentators (at least in the US) don't even understand it. I certainly don't think the scoring should be dumbed down but I do feel like it is necessary for me to read message boards to see why skater A beat skater B.

Not if you watch Canadian TV, where trusted experts call out possible UR or DG live, explain amazing feats non skaters wouldn't get, and gush over or critique skating skills, and give ideas of how close the final scores may be before they are up so viewers have an expectation of the range of probabilities. Of course, as in the old era, the biggest compliment they give is complete silence during the performance, followed by emotional exclamations afterwards.

[Tonichelle]

^OT: Toni I love your Avatar!

thanks, when I was watching the coverage of TEB last weekend I saw that moment and just had to have it as an avatar. I'm working on new avatars that I'll be putting in a photobucket account as soon as I get a good majority worked out so others can have some new stuff. hopefully we can get them added to the boards sometime in the future!

[Mathman]

Not if you watch Canadian TV, where trusted experts call out possible UR or DG live, explain amazing feats non skaters wouldn't get, and gush over or critique skating skills, and give ideas of how close the final scores may be before they are up so viewers have an expectation of the range of probabilities. Of course, as in the old era, the biggest compliment they give is complete silence during the performance, followed by emotional exclamations afterwards.

That is exactly what I am talking about. The experts call out every UR and DG, blah, blah, blah. and if you want more you can check out the protocols. Bleh. The spectator is not allowed an opinion, its all cut and dried. Especially dried.

[havefun]

My point regarding the beauty of skating lost to some with IJS -
Who enjoys
- The Bent over spin with the butt in the air,straight legs to end the program.
- Footwork sequence - French guy (sorry don't remember his name with the leopard shirt, fifth this weekend). Not relaxing to watch as a spectator.
- Bent knees on a camel with upper body facing upward to increase points as a difficult variation. (ok for those with long lines and toe point otherwise !!
- haircutter and layback that looks back-breaking.

Just a few examples of tricks that skaters are attempting that take away from the flow and aesthetics of the program but garner extra technical points. The same skater may have gorgeous jumps or sit spins but is having to add variations to their programs that they otherwise would leave out for aesthetic reasons.

I would imagine some viewers might just scratch their heads and switch channels..

[ImaginaryPogue]

I'm not at all sure why COP has been so disastrous for the the ladies, more so that for the other 3 disciplines.

Any thoughts?

I'd argue that it hasn't been more disasterous. Currently, right now, it's not all that impressive, true. But if you can find me an Olympic event as well skated as the ladies from Vancouver, I'd love to see it.

[SkateFiguring]

That is exactly what I am talking about. The experts call out every UR and DG, blah, blah, blah. and if you want more you can check out the protocols. Bleh. The spectator is not allowed an opinion, its all cut and dried. Especially dried.

I don't see any lack of spectators' opinions. What do you think fill the countless pages of skating forums including the one we are in now?

Or you mean every spectator's opinion being considered in determining the competition results? Did 6.0 allow that?

eta. I didn't mean we all need to blindly accept the experts' opinions, especially on the perception of artistry. But the reason they are trusted and their opinions respected is, besides their credentials and successes in skating, they help open the spectators' eyes to see what real skaters and experts see. E.g. Browning often knows the result of a jump at the moment of take off and he's almost always right, as are his calls of UR, and he throws in technical lessons skaters can benefit from, so I respect and learn from him. I am grateful and not about to complain.

[skateluvr]

If you go to FSU, you don't see pages of argument like here. Some of the GS boarders, the mods, have more understanding of IJS CoP than commentators who are skaters. C'mon guys, we're talking about people who tuned in in years past to enjoy figure skating. This board has elitists who have time to figure out all the stuff that matters to uber fans. Look at all the Yuna fans who became experts in CoP to debate why she wins or is better. We are talking about the huge decline in USA which Janet feels has to do with loss of enjoyment over what we see. I get her. She is saying the training system devised over 100 years has been scrapped and the new system is not turning out beautiful gliding, deep edged skating. It is stressful to watch all but a few phenoms and even they bomb (Chan). It is too hard for most seniors to skate programs well that people enjoy.

We are die hard skating fans here. Many long time fans, but apparently even the die hards with the money are not filling the seats and we cannot get sponsors to put it on ABC, CBS OR NBC. Even Espn stopped covering GP and world events.

Math man has a very good point. If people do not understand something, they do not watch it. i do not understand football. I have never tried. chances are if I knew the rules, i would be more interested. Or if I had a spouse who made me watch, LOL. Janet was right about a lot of these programs being stressful. But I think things will change as they do and improve. Look how good ice dance has become and more people enjoy that now. Why? Somehow the top teams are showcasing great basic skating besides lifts, the choreography is great (thanks Marina/Igor) and the ice dancers don't fall all the time.

It's very enjoyable to long time fans and apparently has caught on due to DWTS and the popularity of ballroom classes everywhere. The ice dancers may be the hardest to rank as the top teams are so comparable in skills, but they are worth watching. I can't say that for many of the current skaters in the other three disciplines. Too much, too crazy, just like Russian/European ice dancing used to be. Just my uneducated opinion. I don't read IJS stuff, don't have time, I'm old enough to know what i enjoy and think is good skating. I think it's more a cyclical thing as far as viewership.

People want to be entertained while watching a compeitition. I think a lot of older viewers are gone for the time being. Only wealthy people fly to comps to fill the seats, or skaters who were once pretty good. How can they fill the seats and regain the viewership? Sadly people today would rather watch kim K and her greedy family.

[Olympia]

One thing Janet mentions that bothers me a lot is injuries. I know that skaters have always dealt with injuries, as all athletes do. But I wonder whether some of the more difficult variations that are done to gather points, or the more demanding training regimens needed to comply with the demands for a well-rounded skater, are leading to more injuries and shorter careers for skaters. Just the Biellmann spins alone could herniate a disk or two. I think ladies would be at a special disadvantage because they peak earlier in adolescence, when their bodies are still growing, and because they often skate through growth spurts where they might push themselves when they should be holding back and giving their strength a chance to catch up with their bodies.

This is a worry I've had in gymnastics for years, and I hate seeing skating going in that direction.

[skateluvr]

Yes, Janet is very concerned about injuries affecting longevity. There are really ugly spin positions now. I much prefer a blurred scratch spin.

[Nadine]

I'm not into arguing and all that cr*p that goes on . I'm only interested in posts that get my attention, lol. :D

Anyhow, I like what these last two posters have stated, and I agree (to an extent). (;^)

Even in Sonja's time there were naysayers saying that the younguns would take over, like Sonja herself when she first hit seniors at age 11, but as you can see by history she didn't start winning anything on the international scene until she was 14, matured, well seasoned, and knew how to compete and take care of her body. Not over do it, eat right, stick to her regimented schedule, listen to her trainers, advisors, coaches, et al. And stay on that merry-go-round eight months of every year for over a decade.

My point is that truly great champions will learn how to win, you can't stop them, it just happens. And that includes overcoming injury, and making it happen. And if that means compensating for spins in other areas, they will do it. Look at Rachael Flatt, she didn't let not being able to do a Biellmann prevent her from becoming a National Champion, nor becoming an Olympian and World Team Member.

That's life. But I do agree with Janet when she worries that the ISU will put a *cap* on new moves/inventions being added, which they said they will do soon. Because like she said if a *cap* was put on skaters in the past, there would have never been the Axel, Salchow, Hamill Camel, Charlotte Stop, Biellmann, and on & on & on.

Another excellent point that Janet brought up, and I agreed with (of course, lol, as I did the entire article) was how she said you cannot quantify/measure a smile, a leap, the feeling one gets when watching a skater fly, be one with the music, the audience, the moment. Or something like that. :D

By the way, I too wish to see a blurred scratch spin, there's truly nothing like it, like this one at the very end of a magical phenomenal program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEJXkfMYTX4