The problem will arise if, at Nationals, no one seizes the opportunity to be better than this. Can you imagine the ranking of anyone with skating of her current level making even the top five in, say, 1999 or 2000? The question at this point isn't "Why do the judges choose her for the world team?" but "Why don't they have anyone better to choose?" This season is anyone's for the taking, but someone has to be good enough to take it. I hope that not only Alyssa but Mirai or Agnes also rise to the occasion.
Rachael Flatt tries to work out kinks
- Thread starter Jtsmith12
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The problem will arise if, at Nationals, no one seizes the opportunity to be better than this. Can you imagine the ranking of anyone with skating of her current level making even the top five in, say, 1999 or 2000? The question at this point isn't "Why do the judges choose her for the world team?" but "Why don't they have anyone better to choose?" This season is anyone's for the taking, but someone has to be good enough to take it. I hope that not only Alyssa but Mirai or Agnes also rise to the occasion.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
I'm not sure what you mean by this. What happened to Aki Sawada?
And Olympia, I believe Ashley will be more than happy to jump through the door opened by Rachael. And I pray Mirai will!
I made a mistake and it was a year earlier.
This is what it was like when she skated at 4CC Feb '07, Colorado Springs:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2007/SEG003.HTM
http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2007/SEG004.HTM
Now half a year later at TEB '07, Paris.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra07/SEG003.HTM
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra07/SEG004.HTM
The point is she LOOKED completely inflated and the judges automatically deflated her score.
Her skating was pretty much the same as 4CC, IIRC.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
I'm sorry if I'm being dense! I'm not that familiar with Aki and vids of those skates aren't on Youtube AFAIK. Are you saying:
(a) she got overscored and then the judges compensated by underscoring her?
or (b) she gained weight and then the judges lowered her component scores?
I could see either being the case with Rachael. Haven't seen the ladies' yet, though.
(a) she got overscored and then the judges compensated by underscoring her?
or (b) she gained weight and then the judges lowered her component scores?
I could see either being the case with Rachael. Haven't seen the ladies' yet, though.
Ashley! I forgot Ashley. Thanks, Spun. I do hope she shines this year.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
Even if Nagasu falters again at Nationals Wagner will be the one to take that 2nd spot, or maybe Agnes. Even a splatfest wouldnt put Flatt on the World team at this point, even if she has one of her better outings. I am sure the USFSA and U.S judges are more than aware of their mistake last year putting her on, and her skating has only regressed since.
You all seem to forget that Rachael skated extremely well at Nationals, and that's why she went to Worlds. If Nagasu or Wagner had stepped up to the plate, they would have gone instead. The reason why Rachael skated poorly at Worlds was a very painful stress fracture in her leg. She should have withdrawn and let Nagasu go instead, but there is no way to know if Mirai would have placed high enough to get 3 spots for Worlds this year, considering that she has a tendency to tense up and not skate her best when under pressure.
Rachael is attending Stanford FULL TIME this fall and has a heavy class load. In addition, she has to travel pretty far for practice ice and that takes a lot of her valuable time. That's why she isn't in top shape. If she doesn't do well at Nationals this year, then obviously she won't be going to Worlds. Maybe then she will re-evaluate her decision to try to combine college with competitive skating. It's up to RACHAEL, not a bunch of armchair coaches.
Rachael is attending Stanford FULL TIME this fall and has a heavy class load. In addition, she has to travel pretty far for practice ice and that takes a lot of her valuable time. That's why she isn't in top shape. If she doesn't do well at Nationals this year, then obviously she won't be going to Worlds. Maybe then she will re-evaluate her decision to try to combine college with competitive skating. It's up to RACHAEL, not a bunch of armchair coaches.
Well she did skate better at 4CC but still ...
4CC:
http://nicotter.net/watch/sm1944550
TEB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MEH5ZQXoj8
I have to admit that weight takes away the IMPRESSION of lightness/flow in skating but that's human perception ... so the SS mark and such drops a lot via optical tendency inside our brains.
Mirai and Ashley didn't get it done last year, and that's why Rachael went to Worlds 2011.
And if Mirai and Ashley DON'T get it done at Nationals again this year, then some other skater(s) will go to Worlds and you will all b**tch about it next year and blame the skaters who do go for not skating well enough.
There's a reason why Nationals are the toughest competition of the year, and the skaters HAVE to bring it to aspire to a Worlds berth. If they don't, then they don't deserve to go.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
Oh, OK. Thanks for clarifying. IMO, it's not just an "impression"! That's why athletes talk about optimal weight. Excess weight affects freedom of movement (it can literally impede it), puts extra pressure on the joints, slows one down, and weighs one down. Besides which, skating has an aesthetic component (unlike, say, tennis). Ten or fifteen extra pounds may not make a dramatic difference in an ordinary person, who can find ways to cover it up (something current fashion designers are getting very good at since people are getting heavier and heavier), but when you're wearing a skimpy little dress and your body is being photographed by TV cameras from every possible angle, that extra weight is impossible to hide. And not very attractive.
Unfortunately the converse is also true. There are way too many skaters who look like sticks, and who go too far in order to achieve the advantages of lightness (for jumps, lifts, etc.) and slimness (for the TV cameras).
It's a cruel sport, but at least in the US, nobody has to do it.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
Rachael did not skate "extremely well" in the LP at Nationals. She landed only 4 clean triples, the same number as Nagasu.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I think another factor people have to remember is that Rachel will have a month off from school before Nationals. If she spends that time wisely she could really surprise some people.
Here's what Rachael landed at 2011 Nationals:
2a+3t<, 2z, 3f, 3z+2t 3f+2t+2lo, 3lo, 3s----that's 5 triples, and 59.46 TES
Alissa:
3z+2t, 3f, 3t+2t+2lo, 3lo<, 3z+2t, 2a, 3t----5 triples, and 64.19 TES
Mirai:
3z+2t, 2a+2t, 3f(e), 3z<, 3t+2t+2lo, 3lo, 2a---4 triples, and 53.45 TES (she lost all credit for one of her spins)
Ashley:
3f+2t, 2a+3t<, 3z+2t+2lo, 3lo, 2a, 3f<fall, 3t---4 triples, and 52.72 TES
The end result:
191.24 62.50 128.74 2 1 Alissa
183.38 62.32 121.06 3 2 Rachael
177.25 63.35 113.90 1 3 Mirai
173.84 61.54 112.30 4 4 Agnes
167.20 58.43 108.77 5 6 Christina Gao
165.36 54.63 110.73 7 5 Ashley
2a+3t<, 2z, 3f, 3z+2t 3f+2t+2lo, 3lo, 3s----that's 5 triples, and 59.46 TES
Alissa:
3z+2t, 3f, 3t+2t+2lo, 3lo<, 3z+2t, 2a, 3t----5 triples, and 64.19 TES
Mirai:
3z+2t, 2a+2t, 3f(e), 3z<, 3t+2t+2lo, 3lo, 2a---4 triples, and 53.45 TES (she lost all credit for one of her spins)
Ashley:
3f+2t, 2a+3t<, 3z+2t+2lo, 3lo, 2a, 3f<fall, 3t---4 triples, and 52.72 TES
The end result:
191.24 62.50 128.74 2 1 Alissa
183.38 62.32 121.06 3 2 Rachael
177.25 63.35 113.90 1 3 Mirai
173.84 61.54 112.30 4 4 Agnes
167.20 58.43 108.77 5 6 Christina Gao
165.36 54.63 110.73 7 5 Ashley
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
What a difference a year can make. 
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
It's laughable Flatt could beat Mirai and Ashley by a margin of between 8 and 10 points at the last nationals. The U.S. judges are obviously on another planet. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how the U.S. judges will score these three for the upcoming nationals assuming Flatt somehow skate 'clean' again, which is not out of the question with another month of training. On the other hand, let's say Mirai and Ashley botch a few jumps again. Who will them send to the worlds? The U.S. judges are between a rock and a hard place.
It isn't laughable, it's sad that Mirai and Ashley consistently defeat themselves at Nationals.
Ashley has had a pattern of bombing the SP and taking herself out of contention. She did that spectacularly in 2009 and again in 2011. She skated both programs well in 2010, but not quite enough to beat Rachael and Mirai.
Mirai seems not to do well at Nationals when she wins the SP. That's been a problem for her internationally as well. She also has a tendency to UR jumps in the FS, especially towards the end of her FS.
The US judges can't conjure up scores for skaters who can't handle the pressure. The skaters have to deliver the performances to make it to the top two steps of the podium and earn a trip to Worlds. It's no use moaning when they fail to deliver, because as Terry Gannon likes to say, the skaters do control their own destiny.
Ashley has had a pattern of bombing the SP and taking herself out of contention. She did that spectacularly in 2009 and again in 2011. She skated both programs well in 2010, but not quite enough to beat Rachael and Mirai.
Mirai seems not to do well at Nationals when she wins the SP. That's been a problem for her internationally as well. She also has a tendency to UR jumps in the FS, especially towards the end of her FS.
The US judges can't conjure up scores for skaters who can't handle the pressure. The skaters have to deliver the performances to make it to the top two steps of the podium and earn a trip to Worlds. It's no use moaning when they fail to deliver, because as Terry Gannon likes to say, the skaters do control their own destiny.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2010
Ashley fell in the SP in 2010. Mirai has actually only not done well at Nationals after leading the SP one time, last year. (In 2008 and 2010 I think she did fine in her FS) However, internationally, yes, she has fallen apart quite a few times. I mean, Ashley's SP problem is true, but I don't think Mirai has really consistently defeated herself at Nationals. She's placed 1st, 5th, 2nd, and 3rd. She's defeated herself once at Nationals, but elsewhere, yes, you could definitely say that she defeats herself.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I tend to agree with Chuck. Mirai and Alyssa are the two skaters that, if everyone skated clean, should be in the top 2 at Nationals. Finishing 3rd and finishing 2nd to Flatt are not great results for Mirai.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Actually, they're not. All they have to do is judge the performances fairly that they see on that day. :yes:
