Rachael Flatt tries to work out kinks

skateflower · Nov 28, 2011

ghislaine said:
? I don't understand this whole argument. Rachael is very, very fit and it is silly to suggest otherwise. If you look at her in the kiss and cry she is rarely out of breath for more than a few moments.

To say Rachael is very very fit is to ignore reality. A female skater's jumps can be gone in no time if she just adds a few pounds. Rachael is obviously out of shape due to her heavy academic schedule and less than ideal training arrangement. Mirai is also not in good shape.

ghislaine · Nov 28, 2011

But Rachael's jumps look like they are mostly still there even with her disaster long program at Skate Canada. She had one jump called underrotated at Rostelecom. She rotated all of her jumps in the Skate Canada short, including a lutz with positive GOE. I don't really see a difference between Rachael's size now and last year at Skate America, or Mirai's size now and at her last year's Grand Prix events. I am probably being too optimistic for both of them but I really think Rachael will at least have herself sorted and settled by next season, and Mirai by nationals.

Olympia · Nov 28, 2011

Yes, Ghislaine! It's very sensible of you to evaluate her fitness level by watching her breathing recovery in the kiss and cry. Granted that Rachael had put on weight this year, but I think you're correct in saying she's lost some of it by competing again.

Not everyone looks fit in the same way. Rachael happens to be very soft-looking. An office-mate of mine is similarly zaftig, and I'd put her strength level above mine any time. She can carry furniture around--in high heels I couldn't even wear. Some people who work out end up looking like those sylphlike ballet dancers, because that's their body type. Sasha is an example; she looked that way well into her twenties, though she's allowed herself to fill out nicely now. (And is still stunning.) Others become muscular and toned, like Joannie and also Katia Gordeyeva. Some ladies are endomorphs and just don't look toned, but underneath it all, the engine is just as revved up.

The real problem with American skating isn't that some judges might decide to prop Rachael up. It's that none of the other ladies (except the miraculously revived Alissa) has been able to blow past her. If even Amber Corwin were around from the old days (she had a consistent triple-triple), or possibly Jenny Kirk, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's not Rachael's fault that her efforts worked out better than those of even Mirai.

I agree with whoever said that Rachael is not an underachiever but rather an overachiever, maximizing whatever talents she has. Would that we were all such goal-oriented folks.

While I agree that she will not (at her present or even her past level of achievement) be the one to get the U.S. ladies on the world podium, I can't feel any antipathy to her. She's in many ways the ultimate underdog for ladies' skating, and I generally root for underdogs.

sillylionlove · Nov 28, 2011

I think the talk about Rachel's weight is really unecessary. She is doing her best. I applaud her for taking the time to go to college and study something other then skating because skating won't last forever. Maybe this year just isn't her year. Maybe she just has to get used to going to college and skating. Going to college is a big change. I say lets give her until next year to see if she can figure out a nice balance. I don't think it's right to talk about her weight. How many of you commenting on her weight haven't gained a few pounds one time yourself. I wish Rachel the best of luck and I really hope that she makes a comeback next year!

I also appreciate the fact that in the article she is very honest about the fact that some things are not working for her and that she needs to figure out how to do things and work her schedule. It's a great article.

chuckm · Nov 28, 2011

ITA sillylion. Many of the Rachael putdowns are coming from Mirai and Ashley fans who vent their frustration with their ubers by dumping on the one who beat them the last couple of years. It's really rather ugly.

pangtongfan · Nov 28, 2011

Speak for yourself but I am no fan of Wagner or Nagasu and never have been. The only female skaters I like right now are Czisny, Asada, Kim (when she competes), Kostner, Korpi, and Phanuef.

chuckm · Nov 28, 2011

Only Czisny of the skaters you like will be at US Nationals. And some of the ones you like are puzzling.

Korpi landed 2 triples at CoR and scored 105; the only thing she has going for her is her sublimely beautiful face, and I don't recall anything in the PCS description that gives extra points for beauty.

Phaneuf is lucky if she lands even two triples, the way she stalks her jumps. I can't stand to watch her skate because she is so tall and muscular, when she falls it is like a tree going down.

brightphoton · Nov 28, 2011

chuckm said:
Many of the Rachael putdowns are coming from Mirai and Ashley fans who vent their frustration with their ubers by dumping on the one who beat them the last couple of years. It's really rather ugly.

chuckm said:
Only Czisny of the skaters you like will be at US Nationals. And some of the ones you like are puzzling.

Korpi landed 2 triples at CoR and scored 105; the only thing she has going for her is her sublimely beautiful face, and I don't recall anything in the PCS description that gives extra points for beauty.

Phaneuf is lucky if she lands even two triples, the way she stalks her jumps. I can't stand to watch her skate because she is so tall and muscular, when she falls it is like a tree going down.

Oh hai, kettle!

Blades of Passion · Nov 28, 2011

Well, 'tis the time of year for firewood.

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 28, 2011

pangtongfan said:
Speak for yourself but I am no fan of Wagner or Nagasu and never have been. The only female skaters I like right now are Czisny, Asada, Kim (when she competes), Kostner, Korpi, and Phanuef.

So then why are you so insistent on Rachel retiring? She certainly isn't standing in the way of any of your favorite skaters. And, frankly, if any of our younger skaters cannot beat Rachel they probably won't be a factor in international competition anyway.

Mrs. P · Nov 28, 2011

drivingmissdaisy said:
So then why are you so insistent on Rachel retiring? She certainly isn't standing in the way of any of your favorite skaters. And, frankly, if any of our younger skaters cannot beat Rachel they probably won't be a factor in international competition anyway.

And another thing to consider is why would Rachael want to retire on such a down note? Or give up when she's just getting used to her new schedule, environment, etc.

Also while she's USFS/Int'l judges darling now, let us not forget that Alissa also had some major up and down years too; I think it's a bit unfair to say Rachael should retire because the chips are down when Alissa has dealt with some tough years. (In fact, I recall some of the same "she ought to retire" chatter after her 11th place finish at Worlds and her 10th place finish at Nationals the following year.) In fact, while she was at Bowling Green State University she finished 7th ('06) 3rd ('07) 8th ('08) and 1st ('09).

The main issue for Alissa, of course, was more mental than physical. It's the reverse for Rachael. It's more an issue of stamina and energy and less that she's a headcase. I think it's still a hard road for Rachael, but I think she has the mental willingness to do it. You have to if you are dealing with the schedule she's dealing with.

Serious Business · Nov 28, 2011

I thought the article explained pretty well why Rachael may not be performing as well as she used to: her new college schedule and location are keeping her from training. This is all fixable, if she is so inclined. Not to mention, she has a new coach now and may be reconfiguring her technique. I'm not going to write her off yet.

Also, for you Rachael haters, here's possibly the least flattering photo ever taken of a figure skater in competition, from Rachael's recent display in moscow: http://i.imgur.com/YmvDV.jpg

It's snot pretty.

Kissx3 · Nov 28, 2011

Rachel definitely shouldn't retire if she's still enjoying it. She's only 19, plenty of time to get back up there especially since as with the last few years, it's not like there are throngs of younger girls stepping up to the plate. Really, only Gracie Gold comes to mind as someone the upper tier is going to be battling against next year.

skateluvr · Nov 28, 2011

why isn't this posting????

Serious Business said:
I thought the article explained pretty well why Rachael may not be performing as well as she used to: her new college schedule and location are keeping her from training. This is all fixable, if she is so inclined. Not to mention, she has a new coach now and may be reconfiguring her technique. I'm not going to write her off yet.

Also, for you Rachael haters, here's possibly the least flattering photo ever taken of a figure skater in competition, from Rachael's recent display in moscow: http://i.imgur.com/YmvDV.jpg

No, the ugliest photo is your avatar of diva wannabe Madison Chock. U just gave the Rachael haters a bone. Mean Mean Mean!

Yes, she gained some weight from not training but anyone who counts this Olympian out misjudges how competitive this girl is. Nationals is her event.
It's snot pretty.

Serious Business · Nov 28, 2011

I don't think the picture I posted shows anything about her weight. It's just a funny and awkward moment during a jump. Snot happens! Everybody gets boogers sooner or later, hers just happen to be immortalized by a sports photographer during a jump. It's a unique honor! Unless there are more pics of other skaters like that, in which case please share!

chuckm · Nov 28, 2011

brightphoton said:
Oh hai, kettle!

Cynthia Phaneuf's situation is completely different from Rachael Flatt's. Rachael knows she is not skating anywhere near her best but has a long-range plan to regroup, and she is not giving up. Her FS at TEB was miles better than the FS at SC. In her latest competitions, Cynthia seemed to be giving up without a fight.

The major difference between the two is that while Rachael clearly is not competitive with the top US ladies, Cynthia should easily retain her Canadian championship because there is no other lady in Canada who can skate better than she does. Cynthia was once one of the most promising skaters in Canada. She had early successes at 4CC and in the GP, but then a huge growth spurt followed by injury took her out of competition for two years. After returning, she slowly regained the tougher jumps, but seemed to peak when she finished 5th at 2010 Worlds. Since then, she's been on a downward spiral. When skating deteriorates as badly as Cynthia's has since 2010, it's time for a change.

Right now, she approaches each jump as if she is uncertain whether she can land it, hence the pops and falls. The best news is that Cynthia is now being coached by Brian Orser. Maybe Orser can give Cynthia back belief in herself.

brightphoton · Nov 28, 2011

No, Flatt didn't beat anyone. But her slot in her GPs could have gone to another skater, a newbie who could have made a senior debut.

To chuck, doesn't matter what your rationale is. To call out others for putting down other skaters when their favorites are down, and then turn around and say Korpi has nothing going for her except her face and Phaneuf has the body of a giant tree is while your favorite Flatt is down, is downright hypocritical .

pangtongfan · Nov 28, 2011

chuckm said:
Only Czisny of the skaters you like will be at US Nationals. And some of the ones you like are puzzling.

Korpi landed 2 triples at CoR and scored 105; the only thing she has going for her is her sublimely beautiful face, and I don't recall anything in the PCS description that gives extra points for beauty.

Phaneuf is lucky if she lands even two triples, the way she stalks her jumps. I can't stand to watch her skate because she is so tall and muscular, when she falls it is like a tree going down.

I like Korpi since I see alot of artistic potential in her, if she can just get the jumps together she can be quite a skater (although I dont know if that will ever happen and am prepared that it probably wont). Plus she is very pretty and well spoken.

I like Phaneuf since I admire her from coming back from the absolute bottom after her growth spurt and a series of injuries, when it would have been easy to retire, and fighting her way back onto the World team and achieving her dream of going to the Olympics. That plus her grace after being robbed of the bronze medal at the 2010 Worlds by poor judging. I also find her a very elegant skater and her long limbs create nice lines on the ice, and has nice spins. She is kind a poor womens Czisny (actually better jumps than Czisny when she lands them but even more inconsistent, and weaker in all else) and I love Czisny's skating.

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 28, 2011

brightphoton said:
No, Flatt didn't beat anyone. But her slot in her GPs could have gone to another skater, a newbie who could have made a senior debut.

I cannot think of any US junior skater that wouldn't benefit more from competing in the JGP than in senior events. The young Russians competing on the GP are unusually talented and a couple have really accomplished everything they can as juniors.

chuckm · Nov 29, 2011

Flatt was entitled to two GP events because she finished in the top 12 at Worlds. She was also in the top 12 on the ISU Ranking list at the end of last season and was #8 on the Seasons Best list---she would have received GP invitations even if she had not competed at Worlds. Few newbies have the international ratings to earn a GP spot.

And since the ISU cut singles skaters from 12 to 10, twelve skaters were robbed of the opportunity to compete in the GP.

Rachael Flatt tries to work out kinks

skateflower

Match Penalty

ghislaine

Olympia

sillylionlove

chuckm

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

chuckm

brightphoton

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

drivingmissdaisy

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Serious Business

Kissx3

skateluvr

Serious Business

chuckm

brightphoton

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

drivingmissdaisy

chuckm

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