PJ's Top Ten Ice Dance Teams

[skateluvr]

Good to see Grishuk and Platov. Sometimes I get the feeling that they're underrated because of judging controversises and that they won when he fell.

2 gold medals, (one not deserved) is underrated? Ice dance corruption was at its height when G&P skated. Exactly my point, they even fell and still got the gold. The skater commentators were so careful about this competition. I remember exactly Scott's carefully worded question to Tracy Wilson, and her ever so careful PC answer. The ice dance judging more than any other discipline is what finally got the 6.0 thrown out and CoP begun. By 2002, the go along, get along commentators were finally ready to fight the bloc voting that gave every Russian team the ice dance and pairs medals for forever. G&P did not deserve that gold in Nagano. Tracy said they were sloppy and beatable. Ice dance judging was the insiders joke for years. Oksana Pasha Grishuk was not the best, but she thought she was. The outrageous behavior didn't matter. The fix was in. Verne Lundquist didn't really need to tell us the backstory on her, as that mattered only to the American audience who value marriage vows and the like.

The gold was predecided.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Right, but Tracy was also rooting for Bourne/Kraatz, who had a terrible OD and mediocre CD, but she never seemed to mention that.

[gmyers]

I don't think they were that sloppy like Tracy said! Not even a little. Not in the Free Dance. Obviously in on CD she made a mistake but not a big one. O/K weren't that great to me compared to G/P. All the arguments over the judging when people made jokes about not even really knowing what is judged obscures the greatness of what G/P did IMO.

[skateluvr]

Right, but Tracy was also rooting for Bourne/Kraatz, who had a terrible OD and mediocre CD, but she never seemed to mention that.

I will re-watch those programs, and I'll be the first I don't have the judging system knowledge but G/P's mistakes were overlooked. Always overrated t me anyway.

[pangtongfan]

Bourne & Kraatz did not deserve the gold medal in Nagano. I loved their Riverdance Program but their Grease Lightning OD was strictly an exhibition program that should have been used as such, and is a competitive program never should have been anywhere near even 4th in that portion, probably more about 8th as it had no difficulty at all compared to the other teams. As for a top 10 all time list while I respect their achievements and what they did for the sport in North America I dont see room for them on such a list personally, but to each their own. If B&K are on it Belbin & Agosto should be too, as their career was atleast as impressive, and they were the superior team of the two IMHO.

Gritschuk & Platov had only 2 somewhat controversial wins- the 94 Olympics and 97 Worlds. However in both cases none of their competitors were a clear winner either. Usova & Zhulin and Torvill & Dean both had issues with their FD programs as well (legality or otherwise) in 94. At the 97 Worlds many felt Krylova & Ovsiannikov's stunning Masquerade Waltz should have won after some minor mistakes by G&P in the FD, but Krylova & Ovsiannikov tripped in their 1st CD and should have been placed 3rd behind Bourne & Kraatz which would have cost them any chance at the gold anyhow. At the 94 Worlds they fell but both Usova & Zhulin and Torvill & Dean missed Worlds so there was nobody close to them anyway there. At the 95 and 96 Worlds they were the clear winners. The technically lacking and overdone Carmen of Krylova & Ovsiannikov was not good enough to have defeated them for the 98 Olympic Gold, where apart from a stumble in the 1st CD they skated very well otherwise. I would not have Gritschuk & Platov over Klimova & Ponomarenko in a million years but there is no way they can be excluded from a top 10 list rationally speaking.

[pangtongfan]

I think overall I would take all of Wilson & McCall, Duchensays, and Bestiamanova & Bukin off the list and replace them with Krylova & Ovsiannikov, Moiseeva & Minenkov, and Usova & Zhulin somewhere on the list instead. Or maybe keep one of the first 3 teams I listed on until Davis & White win another World title or another couple World medals, which will happen anyway.

[dorispulaski]

I was never fond of G&P, but they had great speed in their CD's, and some of the CD's they skated during their career were particularly fine, though not aa precise as U&Z from an earlier era.

However, I would have probably given the 1998 Olympics, overall, to K&O, no matter how much I am not a huge fan of theatrical facial expressions.

B&K had a distressing habit of getting around on flats from time to time, and Riverdance, while a charming dance, was particularly full of flats because of the staccato clogging they were doing. Their marks at 1998 Olympics didn't particulalry bother me.

My favoriate G&P program was their FD from 1997 Euros (The Feeling Begins)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLmywlzRkv0

I also liked their Yankee Polka in 1987
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFyzNp-0IEQ

They made a good effort not pointing the toes in the part of the dance where you are not supposed to point them, and good timing throughout what is a quick, tough dance.

And I also love their light and frothy Quickstep OD to Girls, Girls, Girls from 1995, with such a lot of the dance in close holds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EqTmB96Jbk

[Tonichelle]

YANKEE POLKA!!!!

[Buttercup]

And I also love their light and frothy Quickstep OD to Girls, Girls, Girls from 1995, with such a lot of the dance in close holds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EqTmB96Jbk

Here's a better quality version of that OD. I don't think I've ever watched it before, and it's very nice indeed! Though Pasha's dress, just no, it's distracting. And I have to admit, I like watching Rahkamo & Kokko's quickstep more (the ISU should bring back CDs so we can have another round of Finnsteps!).

[Blades of Passion]

Anissina & Peisserat should have won the Free Dance and the Gold medal in Nagano, IMO. In that dance they had the most extraordinary positions of the time, superb basics and power, creativity, and brought the music to life.

Punsalan & Swallow - 2nd in the Free Dance but only 5th overall because of lacking in the other phases. Definitely one of the most underrated Free Dances ever. There was more nuance, more fluid full-body movement, and more content than any other dance of the time, all of it working together very well. They didn't have the very best basic skating ability or matching lines or facial expression, but all of the other qualities here are so superb and it's a dance that gives you something new to admire at every given turn.

Bourne & Kraatz - 3rd in the Free Dance and 4th overall; oddly the same as they actually were marked. Their OD really was poor, but the Free Dance was delightful.

Krylova & Ovsyannikov - 4th in the Free Dance and Silver medal overall. They definitely had the best OD of the competition and the commitment to the performance in the FD is quite evident, but I find it overly simple and not very interesting choreographically. It's too "on the nose".

Grishuk & Platov - 5th in the Free Dance and Bronze medal overall. I really do not like this Free Dance. It's repetitive, non-cohesive, and doesn't seem to have much to do with the music. It's fake gravitas with movement that is applied over the music and exists to say "look at this flashy move" rather than being FOR the music and working together to create a whole that is more than the sum of its parts.

[Olympia]

Buttercup, I'm so glad you mentioned the Finns. They're one of my two fave couples not on this list, along with Denkova/Staviskiy. I just love to watch them. That wonderful La Strada program of theirs! And Denkova and Staviskiy's OD to that baroque piece (the music, Marche du ceremonie des Turcs, was composed by Lully) truly lives up to the appelation "original."

As far as who is on the list, the one unincluded couple I can't bring myself to leave off remains Usova/Zhulin, and OGMs or no OGMs, I have to take Grishchuk/Platov off to make room for them.

[ImaginaryPogue]

I don't think they were that sloppy like Tracy said! Not even a little. Not in the Free Dance. Obviously in on CD she made a mistake but not a big one. O/K weren't that great to me compared to G/P. All the arguments over the judging when people made jokes about not even really knowing what is judged obscures the greatness of what G/P did IMO.

Tracy didn't really say they were sloppy, though, just that she's seen them better.

Anissina & Peisserat should have won the Free Dance and the Gold medal in Nagano, IMO. In that dance they had the most extraordinary positions of the time, superb basics and power, creativity, and brought the music to life.

Really? I'd say they looked a little sloppy, truth be told. A little stumble here and there really hurt the program for me. Loved it at Worlds, though. I also can't get over how annoying her positions are during the the reverse-lift.

ptf, I'm not saying B/K should be on the list, I'm just saying that if you're PJ and catering to a Canadian audience, leaving off the dancers who were largely the face of the sport for a decade and all it's controversies is surprising.

[pangtongfan]

Yeah if a token 2nd Canadian team (or 3rd if we count the Duchensays) must be included I would include Bourne & Kraatz over Wilson & McCall. I like Wilson & McCall but I never thought they were leaders or did much to impact the sport. Bourne & Kraatz atleast became a top team very young by passing alot of teams. Wilson & McCall just waited out teams retiring as was custom then to get to the podium as bronze medalists for a few years, they never passed anyone in front of them. Bourne & Kraatz had much more longevity at the top too, and Wilson & McCall almost medalled mainly as just the token team to break up potential Soviet sweeps since I dont think the judges wanted too many sweeps.

[Blades of Passion]

Really? I'd say they looked a little sloppy, truth be told. A little stumble here and there really hurt the program for me. Loved it at Worlds, though.

It was a little sloppy (I saw a couple unsure edges on his part and some shakiness from her the second time she lifts him), but then all of the performances had some execution defects. Olympic pressure and all.

[pangtongfan]

I did not find Anissina & Peizerat's FD that technically difficult although I admit ice dance is the discipline I know the least about. There didnt seem to be alot of complet footwork, and alot of posing, and alot of stroking. Their OD was very difficult and excellent as a program except for the fact they skated it rather poorly that night, never getting back on the music after the early stumble. Compare it to their stunning Worlds OD and there is a World of difference. I thought their bronze was a good enough result for them.