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Thread: Free Dance

  1. #61
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    I hear a lot of raves about W/P, but sorry, I do not like their program at all. I don't see anything interesting or gripping about a couple who have enjoyed a night together and then he oafishly dumps her. This is enjoyable and uplifting? Not!

    Yes, they are a good-looking couple. But the scenario is ugly.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I hear a lot of raves about W/P, but sorry, I do not like their program at all. I don't see anything interesting or gripping about a couple who have enjoyed a night together and then he oafishly dumps her. This is enjoyable and uplifting? Not!

    Yes, they are a good-looking couple. But the scenario is ugly.
    Wait, you don't like a Canadian team's program? Alert the press!!!

  3. #63
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    I hear a lot of raves about W/P's FD, and I don't see anything to rave about. I guess this program is the alternative to the lovey-dovey romantic stuff they have been doing the past couple of years, but surely there were other directions they could have gone rather than a program where she looks like an clinging vine idiot and he like a brutish jerk.

  4. #64
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    Davis/White: It's well skated, designed and they'll (obviously) score wonderfully with it. I just wish I liked it more. I was able to watch the whole thing this time, but the only really enthralling moment for me is that staggering rotational lift. All but one judge gave it +3, and it's really really insanely awesome. Meryl's posture in that moment is divine - you can so clearly tell they've been working like dogs to improve, and they have done so wonderfully. But overall.... well, it makes me dislike the rule changes even more.

    Weaver/Poje: EXACTLY what I wanted to see them do. They skated flat out. They needed to threaten B/S here at home. Every time I see them skate their two programs, I'm seeing more confidence. That was faster, more precise and more emotional than they've ever been. The previous two seasons where they were fighting for the second spot, I felt they were slightly overrated because they were skating to more traditional music (compared to Crone/Poirier). I often found C/P's programs more intricate, more intriguing, and by design - just better. ESPECIALLY last season where W/P had that chintzy Moulin Rouge FD.

    But it's interesting. Not only are they now training alongside a better team (Pechalat/Bourzat) and they don't have Crone/Porier to worry about. I don't know if it was the fifth place finish at Worlds that did it (not only beating C/P, but recall that top five was their goal), but the confidence that was missing before? It's here now. This is the first time I see them as podium contenders in Nice and this dance can threaten the 100 point barrier - they are capable of level four on footwork and with slightly better PCS, they could do it. They may have lucked into top five at Worlds last season, but as long as they haven't peaked too early (knock on wood; nothing to see here SkateGods), they will be real contenders.

    Bobrova/Soloviev: Remember how everyone found their dance last season boring? I liked it. It was subtle, graceful, and cast a spell. When they were clean, anyway. This season... not so much. There’s still some interesting stuff going on choreographically, but they’ve regressed technically – her posture is worse and he seems to be aping her in order to match. They’re less fluid than I recalled. Element for element, it wasn’t terrible or anything, but something is missing. The poll position will likely remain theirs this season, but next season? Doubtful. And yes, her costume is insanity.

    Riazanova/Tkachenko: THREE LEVEL ONES and one level two. At the senior level, that’s unacceptable. Here’s the thing, though. I really enjoy this dance. It’s a dance that I can see Tarkovsky creating. It’s got such a superb mood and ambience.

    CARA, I’m not sure I can explain the imbalance. I’ve heard people who’ve seen R/T live describe them as slow, so that’s part of it (I do think B/S are faster based on video). The rotational lift in R/T’s dance was called a level one (first one), and there was one moment that I think I saw her touch down.

    Tobias/Stagniunas: Well, at least they had fun.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Davis/White: It's well skated, designed and they'll (obviously) score wonderfully with it. I just wish I liked it more. I was able to watch the whole thing this time, but the only really enthralling moment for me is that staggering rotational lift. All but one judge gave it +3, and it's really really insanely awesome. Meryl's posture in that moment is divine - you can so clearly tell they've been working like dogs to improve, and they have done so wonderfully. But overall.... well, it makes me dislike the rule changes even more.

    Weaver/Poje: EXACTLY what I wanted to see them do. They skated flat out. They needed to threaten B/S here at home. Every time I see them skate their two programs, I'm seeing more confidence. That was faster, more precise and more emotional than they've ever been. The previous two seasons where they were fighting for the second spot, I felt they were slightly overrated because they were skating to more traditional music (compared to Crone/Poirier). I often found C/P's programs more intricate, more intriguing, and by design - just better. ESPECIALLY last season where W/P had that chintzy Moulin Rouge FD.

    But it's interesting. Not only are they now training alongside a better team (Pechalat/Bourzat) and they don't have Crone/Porier to worry about. I don't know if it was the fifth place finish at Worlds that did it (not only beating C/P, but recall that top five was their goal), but the confidence that was missing before? It's here now. This is the first time I see them as podium contenders in Nice and this dance can threaten the 100 point barrier - they are capable of level four on footwork and with slightly better PCS, they could do it. They may have lucked into top five at Worlds last season, but as long as they haven't peaked too early (knock on wood; nothing to see here SkateGods), they will be real contenders.

    Bobrova/Soloviev: Remember how everyone found their dance last season boring? I liked it. It was subtle, graceful, and cast a spell. When they were clean, anyway. This season... not so much. There’s still some interesting stuff going on choreographically, but they’ve regressed technically – her posture is worse and he seems to be aping her in order to match. They’re less fluid than I recalled. Element for element, it wasn’t terrible or anything, but something is missing. The poll position will likely remain theirs this season, but next season? Doubtful. And yes, her costume is insanity.

    Riazanova/Tkachenko: THREE LEVEL ONES and one level two. At the senior level, that’s unacceptable. Here’s the thing, though. I really enjoy this dance. It’s a dance that I can see Tarkovsky creating. It’s got such a superb mood and ambience.

    CARA, I’m not sure I can explain the imbalance. I’ve heard people who’ve seen R/T live describe them as slow, so that’s part of it (I do think B/S are faster based on video). The rotational lift in R/T’s dance was called a level one (first one), and there was one moment that I think I saw her touch down.

    Tobias/Stagniunas: Well, at least they had fun.
    Which is the rotational lift? The lift midway through the program or the one at the end of the program? For me,that lift midway through the program where Meryl's arms and legs are in a split position is one of the great moments of skating.

    I actually like B/S program a lot and I can see where they are going with it.. If they can just polish it more it will be a really good dance and should put them in position for a medal.

  6. #66
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    The one you mention.

  7. #67
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    OK so it"s early in the season and lets take a breath...here is what we see so far...D/W really bad short dance, like really bad! would be no better that 5th or 6th if there was fair judging, now the free is a skating masterpiece but not a great free, the "Bat" has been used by many and they bring nothing fresh other than remarkable balls to the wall skating. Not a really great program or skating moment. Having said that the U.S. has sold thier soul to the devil for the victory in March. V/M great short dance, best by a mile...free is perfect charachter and should be scored higher but needs to be more difficult and skater faster. Shibs, bad latin feel but great elements, free is boring and junior but great elements and great skaters...should be 8th at worlds. B/S bad programs and poor use if an amazing team. They are wonderful skaters but no latin feel at all and the free dance is not thier best work...I like this team very much! French..better trained than ever, easy third at worlds, both programs a bit blah but their skating is great. Italians, I love the last 30 seconds of the short but it takes too long to get there...the free might grow but so far kind of blah. W/P growing on me, very solid programs with lots of room to grow..I think a solid look at 4th at worlds, connection is good and the value for elements is good, keep performing! Second Russian...please get a good choreo and trainer, what a waste! No programs and n development. The Russians want medals in Sochi but so far they look to meadl easily in Pair and oddly enough easily in Women...I dont see a boy stepping up and the dance is a nightmare...too many god teams out there for them to compete, maybe 2018...

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    ...The R&T vs. B&S thing I can speak to:

    Bobrova & Soloviev had a base score of 36.50 in the FD.

    Riazanova & Tkachenko had a base score of 30.50 inf the FD.

    There's 6 points right there. Furthermore, a bigger base means a bigger GOE for many of the skills.

    R&T's Total Element Score: 34.79
    B&S's Total Element Score: 43.52

    So now we've found 8.73 of the overall difference. R&T had 3 Level 1 skills. I would think that that would not impress the judges very much when they came to give out any of the PCS components.

    That said, I would have scored W&P higher in PCS than B&S, and if B&S were lower, they'd be closer to R&T than they are now.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    ...Bobrova/Soloviev: Remember how everyone found their dance last season boring? I liked it. It was subtle, graceful, and cast a spell. When they were clean, anyway. This season... not so much. There’s still some interesting stuff going on choreographically, but they’ve regressed technically – her posture is worse and he seems to be aping her in order to match. They’re less fluid than I recalled. Element for element, it wasn’t terrible or anything, but something is missing. The poll position will likely remain theirs this season, but next season? Doubtful. And yes, her costume is insanity.

    Riazanova/Tkachenko: THREE LEVEL ONES and one level two. At the senior level, that’s unacceptable. Here’s the thing, though. I really enjoy this dance. It’s a dance that I can see Tarkovsky creating. It’s got such a superb mood and ambience.

    CARA, I’m not sure I can explain the imbalance. I’ve heard people who’ve seen R/T live describe them as slow, so that’s part of it (I do think B/S are faster based on video). The rotational lift in R/T’s dance was called a level one (first one), and there was one moment that I think I saw her touch down.
    Thank you, Doris & IP:

    Basically what you are referring is the disparity in base values, which then will be expanded further when GOEs are added, the basic assumption being that if you were able to execute higher level elements, you have better skating skills, transitions, etc.

    Notion of speed also makes sense. It is naturally harder to execute a same element with more speed, one of the reasons why D/W receive higher GOEs, for instance.

    One notion that did not come up was reputation score-inflation. Rightfully or not, I am assuming that judges are more inclined to ascribe higher values to the #1 team (in this case B/S) than to the #3 team of Russia (R/T). Still, approximately 20 point difference is stark reality. I really wish that R/T allow this disparity as motivation to work harder to raise element levels as well as increase their skating speed.

  9. #69
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    R/T also skate pretty far apart in sections, especially compared to the other top teams. It's also a really open program. Belbin said on IN that their diagonal step sequence lacked content and that their edges don't always set, rise and fall in unison. (Although like IP, she actually really likes their program aesthetically. She just thinks it needs to be tightened up in places and that the step sequences need a lot of work to be cleaned up.) All of that combined with the level 1 and 2 elements is bound to drag down PCS scores, especially for SS and TR. They are a beautiful couple however with good basic quality. He in particular stands out.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoates View Post
    R/T also skate pretty far apart in sections, especially compared to the other top teams. It's also a really open program. Belbin said on IN that their diagonal step sequence lacked content and that their edges don't always set, rise and fall in unison. (Although like IP, she actually really likes their program aesthetically. She just thinks it needs to be tightened up in places and that the step sequences need a lot of work to be cleaned up.) All of that combined with the level 1 and 2 elements is bound to drag down PCS scores, especially for SS and TR. They are a beautiful couple however with good basic quality. He in particular stands out.
    Thank you, jcoates.
    These details are really helpful to hear.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladz123 View Post
    OK so it"s early in the season and lets take a breath...here is what we see so far...D/W really bad short dance, like really bad! would be no better that 5th or 6th if there was fair judging, now the free is a skating masterpiece but not a great free, the "Bat" has been used by many and they bring nothing fresh other than remarkable balls to the wall skating. Not a really great program or skating moment. Having said that the U.S. has sold thier soul to the devil for the victory in March. V/M great short dance, best by a mile...free is perfect charachter and should be scored higher but needs to be more difficult and skater faster. Shibs, bad latin feel but great elements, free is boring and junior but great elements and great skaters...should be 8th at worlds. B/S bad programs and poor use if an amazing team. They are wonderful skaters but no latin feel at all and the free dance is not thier best work...I like this team very much! French..better trained than ever, easy third at worlds, both programs a bit blah but their skating is great. Italians, I love the last 30 seconds of the short but it takes too long to get there...the free might grow but so far kind of blah. W/P growing on me, very solid programs with lots of room to grow..I think a solid look at 4th at worlds, connection is good and the value for elements is good, keep performing! Second Russian...please get a good choreo and trainer, what a waste! No programs and n development. The Russians want medals in Sochi but so far they look to meadl easily in Pair and oddly enough easily in Women...I dont see a boy stepping up and the dance is a nightmare...too many god teams out there for them to compete, maybe 2018...
    I disagree with pretty much every thing stated here... We must be watching different couples,

  12. #72
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    Scores seemed a little inflated here overall, compared to the other GP's. D/W's 109 was too high, especially since they didn't get that many level 4's. W/P's scores were high as well compared to their previous competition, although they had lost levels in their previous two GP's that they got here (they got 4s on everything but the step sequences, which were give 3s), so that might explain why their scores jumped up. B/S were a little overmarked as well, IMO.

    I don't think this is a problem, actually. It seemed everyone was a little overscored, so I don't see the harm in it. It didn't change the results. It's useless to compare scores from one GP to another, and I don't expect that there will be a 3 point difference between D/W and V/M in the FD at the GP final, regardless of who wins.

    I'm SO excited for W/P!! This program has a lot more substance, artistically, than their Moulin Rouge from last season, which I found to be kind of lame. I can undarstand why people are having a hard time seeing Weaver as the clingy, desperate type, but I've been so impressed with the way that both skaters have been able to bring the characters and the emotion across. I saw this FD live at SC, and the emotion was captivating, at least IMO. I find that their expressions seem to be overdone when you see the program on TV, but they deinately weren't too much in the live performance. I'm just so thrilled to see them making fewer technical errors and recovering well from the ones that they do make. I always thought that a lack in confidence was their biggest problem, and they have certainly taken care of that thie season. They seem to skate every program now with confidence and joy. I'm so happy for them, and I hope they skate lights out at the final.

  13. #73
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    I all the Russian couples here, as well as Elena & Nikita. I would hate to be a member of their World team selection committee and only be able to select 3 teams. One team will unfortunately be heartbroken. . I also really Weaver/Poje's FD this season! I enjoyed this dance competition very much!

  14. #74
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    They showed just Davis/White's program on American TV today, so that's all I can comment on. I was completely enchanted by it. It so captures the feeling of old Vienna conveyed in the music. Davis and White move so fluidly from element to element, and they project just the right effervescent personality for the music. I love Meryl's dress, in that jewel-toned deep rose color.

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    ^ Enchanted is the word.

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