I like making predictions so here goes:
1. Elizaveta Tuktamisheva - One of the most exciting skaters we've seen in a few years. The crowd and judges will love her if she's clean.
2. Alissa Czisny - Defending GP champ will probably make minor jump mistakes ...and her music is always a snoozer....But the judges like her.
3. Mao Asada - Will she land her triple axel and/or her triple salchow? ...if so she can win.
4. Akiko Suzuki - I hope she does well but I think she needs others to make mistakes to be on the podium.
5. Caroline Kostner - She'll probably have a few mistakes on the jumps.... but very elegant.
6. Alena Leonova - Her programs and costumes dont seem to be on par with the other top ladies.
1. Patrick Chan - He's so good her can miss one of his quads and still win
2. Daisuke Takahashi - Not quite as good as Chan but will skate well.
3. Javier Fernandez - Mounting his charge toward the world podium.
4. Yuzuru Hanyu - New kid on the block wont get the scores he deserves.
5. Michal Brezina - I predict he will mess up near the end of the LP.
6. Jeremy Abbott - Could be 3rd but quad appears to be MIA.
Please also tell me why with so many little mistakes through out her LP at COR that obviously affect the flow and her presentation, which I found to be a world of difference from her NHK performance has hardly affect her PCS? ( only 1.37 difference, surely that should affect SS, PE as well as IN) Cheers!
(Oh and it still does't explain the lack of difficult jump elements comparatively to others, along with her less clean performance with negative GOEs. Or is Mao the new PCHAN but without the quads, or the 3:3 or 3A for that matter.)
Mskater93, I agree about the ice coverage part, but I noticed this type of choreography 'oversight' is very 'common' right now with the new generations not just to Liza, e.g Artur, Florent, Alena's programs, although they may skated bigger that Liza, but the actual ice coverage (or rather the distance and use of arena) comparatively to their competitor is smaller. It is understandable since Risk vs Scoring factors. Bigger ice coverage, more tiring, more prone to mistakes on everything else. Less ice coverage, hardly reflected in the overall CH score, the maximum loose out is some where 1 to 3. That is fine when you can gain it back in spades from successfully complete your other elements scores successfully without tiring it out with positive GOEs. That was one of my criticsms of the scale of values seems faulty, so no wonder we rarely see balanced choreography, because the points rewarded for it vs the risks is just not worth it.
Actually I have no problem with Liza's PCS, but I do have some issues with others who put up imo sub par performances from what they are capable of to deserve those marks.
Last edited by OS; 11-29-2011 at 02:48 PM.
i think Liza was asked in press conference and she is aware of her ice coverage ( the journalist tried to make a joke of it that she didnt reach his side- in my opinion not very successful) and said she will try to improve it by next year. I think Mishin in an interview said that the main goal for this season is Liza to be consistent and confident. So I guess she does go as far as she can right now. And Mishin probably has a plan for each season. It is interesting that he got Liza to seniors right away while Arthur was kept in juniors for a while while he could have been in seniors earlier. So i believe he knows what each season can be done.
Also, I don't know where you got the blatant biases strongly favouring her over the other competitors supported by her strong (&rich) federation and ISU who seems determined to prop her up contrary to what is delivered from. Also, the entitled leading lady comment.
1.) "Letting" Mao place 8th at NHK Trophy
2.) Excluding her from the GPF for the last two years.
3.) Letting Miki Ando beat her at Japanese Nationals and at 4CC.
4.) Letting Miki Ando, Yuna Carolina Kostner, Alena Leonova and Alissa Csizny from beating her at Worlds last year.
I realize you are talking about GP this year but: Akiko could have beat her at NHK if she did just did a tad better in the FS and Leonova and Adelina definitely did not deserve to beat her at COR given their lack of artistry and/or mistakes (in Adelina's case).
And I think it's absolutely terrible that you're comparing her to Patrick Chan -- she is not getting inflated scores. She is more than 20 POINTS off her PB overall, ten points off her SP PB and 9 points off her LP PB.
Also while she isn't doing 3A, 3-3 or a quad; she is at least attempting all the triples and at least getting 4 of 6 ratified (lutz has had edge calls and the Axel is MIA for now). That's not the case with all the girls in this competition.
Last edited by Mrs. P; 11-29-2011 at 05:00 PM.
PCS is not something that can be compared from event to event, even though people all seem to think so and try to. It's more of a placeholder like the presentation mark under 6.0 (or at least, it's treated that way by the judges) and really depends on where the first skater's PCS mark falls on where the better skaters end up. Also, judges like to be in the marking corridor so they aren't questioned after the event. Yes, you can complain about that all you'd like but the judges have to be (somewhat) like sheep to stay on panels and not be questioned.
Liza's ice coverage is WORSE by far than the other skaters you mentioned and is not really noticeable on TV because of how they follow the skater with the camera. From people who were at SC, some friends of mine made comments of how she only used about 2/3 of the rink to skate versus the other skaters there, who, while may not have completely covered the ice, had much better ice utilization than she did. Not only does this affect the CH PCS mark, it also affects the SS mark and the TR mark. Also, she's probably skating "smaller" than the other ladies in the group which will affect the IN and PE mark which are much more subjective. She's trying to make up for it right now on the TES mark, which is her team's decision and maybe the right way to start.
May be I don't consider artistry like everyone else. To some maybe as long as long as she fulfill their version of the idealised beautiful skater, it would qualify her as artistic. For me that is just projection what you feel is artistic, but nothing to do with true artistry itself which should be abstract, free, lucid and subjective to what the performer are trying to express with originality, meanings and deliberated thoughts with clarity. Like what Daisuke has been doing year after year, try out different things, different version of the truth, exploration and expressing new meanings, variations beyond the self. Something Jeremy is doing when he started to choreographed his own work last year and seems to start to project what he feel is uniquely beautiful meditative skating in its bare necessity. And actually Patrick is begin to enjoying doing as well, and Hanyu is also ahead of the game exploring with feelings, emotions and musicality and let that affect their performances.
I'd say Mao is a lovely and beautiful skater, but may be that is because she is like that to begin with. Her natural style as evident in her earlier days is still more or less as her style today that ALSO happens to match the archetypes ethereal skater because of her classic ballet training,. This may makes her a classic beautiful skater, but not truly an artistically matured skater in the grand scheme of things. IMO Tat tried to push her to develope her artistry through diversity and experimentation. Problem with these things is, they can be costly excercises to someone who's not naturally expressive (beyond the self convincingly) and competition wise it proved too costly and the scale of ambition did not fair well with her desire to remain competitive, thus her Lieberstraume 2 years in a row now.
My problem is also given the state of her scores as it is, why should Mao need to improve her jump content at all?!
Given ISU has basically given her the approval with this type of content can already give her sufficient threshold to lead and benchmark her future scores when she could just have to focus on going clean with her 3-4 triple triple jumps (without 3A or 3:3) with positive GOEs, less mistakes; while everyone else has to put in 6 triples, a few 3:3 and they still won't able to catch up! Surely that doesn't sound right and seems some sort of double standard going on?
If I am wrong or appear unfair in my assessment, please feel free to correct. It wasn't intentional, but i just don't understand how skewed her mark and how that makes the ladies field look. I would prefer people point out just how great her program is to justify the score other than it is beautiful skating (which it is), but it shouldn't be the main criteria in this sport without the technical difficulty in particular the jumping content to support it.
Mrs.P... last year was a different story. They had Miki with an optimised COP program taking advantaged of the 10% bonus which she can jump her way through without the 3:3, while Mao visibly was not herself and her jumps were being 'fixed' and were missing. It was beyond what one can do to justifiably prop her to do when they also have Kanako and Akiko. (And actually she had 3 triples there too in her LP.)
Mirai doesn't have a 3-3, a salchow and a flutz and still won silver at TEB.
Alena doesn't really have a lutz and keeps getting away with doing 3 flips.
I think it's clear that ISU have given a benchmark for ALL skaters to do well without a full arsenal of triples, not just Mao. That's why the tech content has been so poor. At least Mao is trying to do all six triples.
And it's not like Mao won by a million points at COR. She only beat Alena by 2 points. That's hardly a ringing endorsement from the judges. And also if the ISU is so *** bent on winning then why did she lose to Akiko at NHK?
Also one more note on these inflated scores you claim: Mao hasn't broken her PB in the LP since 2007---when she did two 3-3s.
Last edited by Mrs. P; 11-29-2011 at 05:47 PM.
Akiko brought a 3:3 at her SP along with her 6 triples for the LP (1 e on flip, 1 < on combo), again Mao only had 3 clean triples there at her LP.
Mao isn't using her 2007 content, otherwise I wouldn't be complaining Her current LP content is only going for 4 triples, 2 in combination and without 3:3 or 3A and she scored the highest LP of the season, even with negative GOEs.
Last edited by OS; 11-29-2011 at 05:59 PM.