Is there any truth to this whole thing - or is it just a silly rumor?
Any words from Hanyu or Orser about it?
O ye of little faith
Of course its a silly rumour.
Orser's stock will be much higher if Hanyu medals both at Olys and worlds .
I never liked the Hanyu to Orser switch, I thought Yuzuru was making good progress with his coach in Japan and didn't really see anything Orser could really help him with. Mainly Yuzuru needs more experience and maturity, which will come with time, and better stamina, but I'm not sure what can be done about that considering his asthma. As for skating skills, Orser would do better to focus on Javi's, which are really not good for someone with podium aspirations.
I'm not sure what Plushenko is doing in this thread, but you can never write the guy off. Didn't anyone watch 2012 Euros? I wouldn't be surprised if Plushenko ends up competing against his own kids. Regardless of what one thinks of his style, he's an athletic marvel.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 08-10-2012 at 04:45 PM.
Orser really did say that Hanyu's jumps are good but that his skating skills need 'a lot of work': Hanyu himself said this in an interview after Dreams on Ice, back in June. He added that he was going back to the basics with Tracy Wilson who is his primary SS coach.
More information about this can be found in the book 'Cutting Edge 2012 + Plus' (it's a book about Team Japan's men). He said he was surprised while watching videos of himself skating as a child at how his skating skills were so much better than they are now, and that they got worse as the years went by and he had to focus on more and more difficult jump content in his programs. So he's trying to remember how he used to skate back then. He's practicing a lot and his muscles are always sore: since he's spending so much time on skating skills, he gets worried that the other coaches and students on the rink will wonder what he did to deserve the bronze medal at Worlds, if his skating besides jumping is not that good. Thinking about this makes him train even more.
There's no mention in the book of Orser saying that he won't make him go to Worlds if his SS don't improve (they interviewed him too) nor has Hanyu ever said something like that, so for now it's just a twitter rumour, I guess.
I’m wondering what Orser said about the SS of Javier, Rippon, Christina, Elene, etc. They are the ones who need a lot of work on their SS, but the fact is they improved little under Orser’s team and they still show weak SS now.
Hanyu’s goal is to win OGM, so yes he needs to improve in his SS and other areas if he wants to beat the best skaters like Patrick. That’s what Orser should do to help his student. Unfortunately so far fans have not seen improvement in any area, so of course they have right to blame Orser. Once Orser does his job and helps Hanyu, I’m sure everyone will stop and be quiet.My conclusion proved that even casual fans like me could see it and know what Hanyu was lacking (note: I didn't say that was the only thing he was lacking). This rally against Orser is getting old.
If you have also read Cutting Edge and Hanyu’s other interviews, then you should know that he also said he wanted to improve in jumps, and one reason for going to Orser is that he wanted to learn jumps and quads from Javier. Of course this does not mean Hanyu’s jumps is also his weakness. He said all this because he’s just very modest and he also wants to be the best in everything—SS, jumps, spins, performance, etc.
While no skater is perfect, but the goods Hanyu has got, more than compensate for his weaknesses, notably his stamina. His jumps elements are a particular strength under the current COP scoring, approaching with the right balanced program, he is very competitive. By missing out a whole season could devastate his young career/confidence that might not pay off in the end. Even when other skaters who had trouble trying to fix their skills, they have never missed out a season. You learn a lot by participating even if you might not do well. I don't understand why such drastic changes and question the risky strategy. Orser doesn't seem to place a lot of confidence in his students ability maybe says more about the ambition of the coach rather than what seems to be good for a competitive skater.
I hope it is a crazy rumour... but his young career seems to get crazier and crazier. First the firing of a great long term coach, then the weird stripper gala, then slipping all over the ice on tv broadcast, and now this? Please just don't ends up like another Javier/Rippon Clone that only skate to unoffensive European classical music doing the Tano lutz, and ends up having the same hair cut as Orser (Just like Javier/Rippon).
Last edited by os168; 08-10-2012 at 11:27 PM.
I only translated that because the matter of discussion right now is skating skills. I actually thought it was very good that he was focusing so much on getting them better, considering it's one of his weaknesses. I didn't mean to imply that he wasn't working on other aspects of his skating as well : )Originally Posted by doctor2014
Yes, Hanyu's SS are weak in comparison to Patrick Chan, but really just in that comparison. Saying his SS are a flat out weakness is prettyOriginally Posted by Kalina
And I'm puzzled were that is coming from now - I have, like never, heard any expert or commentator stating Hanyus SS were weak after watching him. The judges definitly don't think like that either (Hanyu had the third highest PCS in the FS this last worlds) . Some people here talk as if Hanyus SS were horrible.
Of course, they should still be improved. When you aim for gold medals, that's what you have to do. But if Hanyu has bad SS, how many people existing even have good ones? I usually like Orser (I'm a big Elene-fan and very happy with how he made her improve so much again), but it's laughable he makes such a drama out of Hanyus SS and doesn't seem to look at Rippon and Fernandez. Especially Fernandez, who could improve overall tremendously with better SS - but that was already stated more than once here too.
Originally Posted by doctor2014
And that's the reason - even more so than his general talent or great jumps - why I'd bet he'll be a WC one day. It's his character and drive.
NOOOOOOOO!! Not the bowl cut! You can't take the bowl cut from Hanyu, it's like stealing his Pooh - no, not possible. It's like Dai with an ordinary hair cut, it exceeds my imagination And Orser would get stoned if that happenedOriginally Posted by os168
(Granted, I don't think it will happen )
Last edited by Li'Kitsu; 08-11-2012 at 10:13 AM.
There is no doubt in my mind that Hanyu will be WC one day soon unless injury slows him down.
Of course the pressure to succeed is another factor that can slow a skater down too.
Please, stop writing Yuzuru’s SS are awful!!
Actually I’ve seen something really horrible and it’s related to his new artificial facial expressions. Are they supposed to be SS ?
Please, remove them from his face, because they don’t belong to him at all!
He’s too cute and spontaneous to act like that!!
I think Orser is speaking like that because he sees him as World champion/OGM material and as such he compares his SS to Chan's, otherwise I'm just like you. Or maybe he's speaking like that because he thinks that Yuzuru's stamina problems are caused by his stroking being too taxing? I have no idea. But I believe the rumours on twitter about Worlds are just that, rumours -- it would be absurd.
I agree with what you said about experts, and about that I'd like to say that technical commentators on italian tv (there are two of them, but usually it's Franca Bianconi, Berton/Hotarek's coach) always remarked on his great quality of skating and deep edges, and Bianconi also said once that he uses his body in a great way during step sequences.
Last edited by Kalina; 08-11-2012 at 12:40 PM.
Thanks for your explanation about Yuzurus SS - and now I completly agree with you. It's the area where I think he can improve the most too. And it's nice to hear what the italian commentators said, I like the 'he uses his body in a great way during step sequences' partOriginally Posted by Kalina
About Orser - I wouldn't mind him talking like that if it was for the whole world champion thing and that Hanyu needs to keep it up with Chan. I'd still wish he would do the same with Javi - I'm not sure he can be a WC one day, but he could be european champion and podium at worlds if it were for better basic skating. Maybe as Hanyu learns from his quads, he can learn a little from Hanyu too =D
Adam Rippon left Orser over a year ago for Sato/Dungjen and only got his haircut this summer.
There's too much speculation here. We'll see soon enough whether this move seems good or not -- at least Yuzuru seems happy with how things are working out and that's the most important thing.