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Thread: Yuzuru Hanyu

  1. #61
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    The main difference between Fernandez and Hanyu is -- European #1 vs Japan's #2. European judges want someone of their own on the GPF podium, especially because this season's worlds is in Europe. Fernandez is the first European GPF medalist since Lambiel in 2007. Hanyu had a little disadvantage from the skate order in the SP. And probably, some judges considered Fernandez was robbed in Russia (by miraculously narrow 0.03 points) and made up for him.
    Fernandez is the no. 1 European on the GP this season. He is not the #1 European skater in any official way, having never medalled at Euros or come in higher than tenth at Worlds. He's also not the highest ranked European in the ISU rankings, FWIW.

    Being the no. 1 European skater, at least officially, did not do much for Florent Amodio. (the lousy programs didn't help). Being the best European skater out of Worlds didn't help Gachinski much. So no, I don't think that Fernandez's significant leap in PCS owes to a perception that he is the top European. I am very curious what it does owe to. Again, I like Javi, but while i'm happy he's not being lowballed on PCS anymore, it's now gone the other way; IMO, his skating does not merit 8+ PCS across the board.

    OTOH, there's been all sorts of bizarre stuff happening with the PCS this season in general and at the GPF specifically, so it's hardly fair to single out the way Fernandez is scored.

  2. #62
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    Takahashi is not Japan's #1 man officially. Kozuka is the official national champion and the highest place finisher at the most recent worlds. Such things are not "announced" but just "perceived". Amodio was the #1 European man when he entered Moscow worlds, and it changed the hand to Gachinski eventually. Both of them couldn't live up to the expectations during this GP season, and Fernandez is now "perceived" as the #1 European man. I'm sure Hanyu is perceived as Japan's #2 now, yet Kozuka is the official #1 man until ten days later.

  3. #63
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Takahashi is not Japan's #1 man officially. Kozuka is the official national champion and the highest place finisher at the most recent worlds. Such things are not "announced" but just "perceived". Amodio was the #1 European man when he entered Moscow worlds, and it changed the hand to Gachinski eventually. Both of them couldn't live up to the expectations during this GP season, and Fernandez is now "perceived" as the #1 European man. I'm sure Hanyu is perceived as Japan's #2 now, yet Kozuka is the official #1 man until ten days later.
    My point was that Fernandez could not have been perceived as the top European when his marks started going up (Skate Canada); he did not have any sort of track record to support that, and had finished off the podium at his first event of the season (Nebelhorn, won by Hanyu). But he got very good PCS at SC, and with that one strong GP showing, he beat Hanyu at PCS at CoR,. Fernandez has been getting high marks compared to his past efforts and compared to many other top skaters, and I am surprised to see it, considering his actual skating and also taking into account that he does not having a great track record outside of this year's GP and does not have the backing of a strong federation.

    As I wrote earlier, however, he is not the only skater whose PCS seems questionable to me at the moment, and the GOE/PCS inflation is getting ridiculous (especially in ice dance).

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    The nature of human judging where impressions matters, will always prefer those ranked by seniority, familiarity and experience, that is why Liza and Hanyu will never get the PCS they deserve even if they did put out their best performance on the day.
    I’ve seen Liza skating live before. I think Liza’s performance has more spark than Adelina’s and I like Liza a lot. But Liza’s basic skating skills are rather weak. She is just too slow (and she needs to work on her spins as well), so I see why other skaters are getting higher PCS than her. I do hope Liza can work on her SS and does not become another Gachinski.

    Hanyu, OTOH, already has good SS (and TR, PE and IN), so he is indeed lowballed on PCS and GOE.

    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    And probably, some judges considered Fernandez was robbed in Russia (by miraculously narrow 0.03 points) and made up for him.
    But the thing is that Javier outscored Hanyu on PCS even in COR. If you take a look at their scores in COR,

    SP_____TES__PCS:
    Javier: 40.11 38.39
    Hanyu: 45.20 37.58

    LP_____TES__PCS:
    Javier: 81.77 81.36
    Hanyu: 82.50 78.38

    In COR, Javier had a 3.79-point margin over Hanyu on PCS, yet Hanyu obviously had much better skating skills. How could someone think that Javier “wuzrobbed”? In fact, Hanyu beat Javier in TES four consecutive times (in both SP and LP at COR and GPF). Javier was still able to get onto the GPF podium just because this time the judges gave him an even larger 5.12-point margin on PCS over Hanyu…

    I agree with Buttercup that the reason behind boosting Javier remains questionable, but the fact is that ISU has formally established him now and will continue to reward him such high PCS. The score may increase even if Javier doesn’t improve on SS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Yuzuru is building that rep now, and doing it in such a way I haven't seen from any male skater this age since Plushenko. I think the judges will be convinced to give him his due sooner rather than later.
    I doubt it will happen. Look at Kozuka who has such amazing skating skills and has been lowballed for such a long time. Ever since the introduction of COP, has ISU ever allowed one single country to have more than one skater to consistently score 80+ on PCS? If Plushenko is 17 y.o. now and is representing Japan, then he would be lowballed too. I’d say had Kozuka emigrated to some European country, say Finland or Italy, then he would have scored 83 or 85 on PCS a couple years ago.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    To me, such comment just sounds cheesy. Obviously, some people like superficial remarks and flattery like this as opposed to people who speak their mind, which is fine. Let's however try not to play psychologist and determine someone's personalty based on a canned answer made for the press.
    How can you know that he is not honest or speak their mind? You know; someone who respect other and think of other highly can be honest too. It not like the only one who say "I'm better than anyone else" is the only honest person in the world. Please don't use what inside your mind to judge him!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    My eyes can't roll back far enough at the nitpicking of a totally innocuous nice thing Yuzuru said. It's not even worth refuting.

    On the other hand, the assertion that Yuzuru got lowballed in the PCS compared to Javier because of nationality is worth a bit more exploration. Rather than chalk it down to nationality or any sort of bloc identity, isn't the more obvious explanation one of seniority and exposure? Javier has been around on the international scene longer and is better known to judges. In fact, Javier's been to the senior world championships 5 times already! Reputation and "waiting your turn" are known modifiers of PCS in our sport. Yuzuru just isn't benefiting from that yet. Funnily enough, in seasons past, Javier was the one whom I thought was getting lowballed in PCS due to his age and lack of reputation. It happens to all skaters, unfortunately. Yuzuru is building that rep now, and doing it in such a way I haven't seen from any male skater this age since Plushenko. I think the judges will be convinced to give him his due sooner rather than later.

    Although, it would really help if Yuzuru fixes his stamina problem completely. You want your last impression of a performance to be strong, because that's right before the judges punch in the PCS.
    I think a lot of people fail to realize Javier is not a new senior skater and thought both him and Yuzuru exploded onto the scene recently. Wow he has been at the WC since he was 15! Luckily I think Yuzuru is slowly trying to resolve his stamina issue...u can tell it is less of a problem than before

    I am starting to think....can anyone else interpret the music better than Yuzuru ?
    Last edited by Becki; 12-12-2011 at 10:04 AM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    My eyes can't roll back far enough at the nitpicking of a totally innocuous nice thing Yuzuru said. It's not even worth refuting.
    Couldn't agree more.

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    Wow Japanese nationals are only around a week and a half away. Yuzuru and Dai must be tired by now. I hope Yuzuru still has enough gas in the tank to bring it for nationals. Is Oda still competing there or is he out with his injury?

    I wish that Yuzuru would skate to something like his 2009 SP again. I found it quite entertaining :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilCUEsKTqwk

    I remember last season some people were complaining about how Yuzuru's program seemed kinda empty and that he should switch coaches, but look at what he's got this season. I think his coach was only giving him what she knew he could do.
    Last edited by FTnoona; 12-12-2011 at 12:58 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTnoona View Post
    Wow Japanese nationals are only around a week and a half away. Yuzuru and Dai must be tired by now. I hope Yuzuru still has enough gas in the tank to bring it for nationals. Is Oda still competing there or is he out with his injury?

    I wish that Yuzuru would skate to something like his 2009 SP again. I found it quite entertaining :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilCUEsKTqwk

    I remember last season some people were complaining about how Yuzuru's program seemed kinda empty and that he should switch coaches, but look at what he's got this season. I think his coach was only giving him what she knew he could do.
    I would be sad if he switched coaches! I love their student and coach chemistry :P And she must be really proud of him ^__^

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    For anyone interest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA7_vFetSV4

    I understand like 10% of what they are saying, and can make out 25% of what's going on LOL If anyone cares to translate, that will be nice

    Btw, off-topic but why is my title "tripping on the podium?" lol

  11. #71
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    Japanese nationals should once again be a thrilling competition. I look forward to watching him mature as both a person and skater. His basic technical arsenal, musicality, and performance ability shouldl put him in good stead. Next, will be great to see him develop more depth, range and variety of programs both for competition and exhibition.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becki View Post
    For anyone interest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA7_vFetSV4
    If anyone cares to translate, that will be nice
    I added English subtitles, just click on "CC" at the bottom of the video if the caption is off.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by champs View Post
    I added English subtitles, just click on "CC" at the bottom of the video if the caption is off.
    Yay thanks. I just tried the CC button and nothing shows up? Am I suppose to translate the audio with google translate?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTnoona View Post
    Yay thanks. I just tried the CC button and nothing shows up? Am I suppose to translate the audio with google translate?
    Oops, I translated a wrong video CC is added for "20061109 novice nats Hino vs Hanyu" and not the one quoted by Becki. Will translate this one as well, just give me a day or so.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by champs View Post
    Oops, I translated a wrong video CC is added for "20061109 novice nats Hino vs Hanyu" and not the one quoted by Becki. Will translate this one as well, just give me a day or so.
    That's ok because now I have another vid of Yuzuru that I can understand! He was so cute then too >.<
    Thanks for your hard work

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