Champion skaters on and off the ice

Wildstorm, are those really cardboard cutouts? Akiko's head looks so big.....

Yes, I'd say their off ice attitude determines how much I like them. You can be a great athlete but when you have a sore loser/winner attitude it's a huge turnoff. I like to live by the quote lose with dignity, and win with grace. Brian Joubert was pretty angry at 2009 Worlds.. during the medal ceremony, he did not wave to the crowd, did not smile once, and during the victory lap he just stared straight ahead. It was kind of disgusting. However, he did stay after the medals and signed autographs. I think he was also out there the longest doing so. Evan left immediately and Patrick only hung around for a little bit. I don't remember actually if Patrick even signed autographs.

Another thing for me, which may not be in many of your cases, is how skaters act "outside" of the "spotlight". One of my friends used to skate and train at the Broadmoor and had quite a few bad experiences with some of the skaters. I won't name names, but if you're mean to a friend of mine, chances are I don't like you.

I remember a really funny Worlds 2009 podium photo with Joubert looking really pissed.

Patrick was new to the scene then and probably didn't have many fans in LA clamouring for his autograph. Also, he left for his grand father's funeral right after. The elder Chan died after the news of Patrick's Worlds silver.

All other reports I've come across always say Patrick stays long for his fans at every event. In Vancouver for the Olympics anniversary, he spent twice the alotted time to meet his fans who lined up in the rain to see him.

ryanbfan said:

Yes, I'd say their off ice attitude determines how much I like them. You can be a great athlete but when you have a sore loser/winner attitude it's a huge turnoff. I like to live by the quote lose with dignity, and win with grace. Brian Joubert was pretty angry at 2009 Worlds.. during the medal ceremony, he did not wave to the crowd, did not smile once, and during the victory lap he just stared straight ahead. It was kind of disgusting. However, he did stay after the medals and signed autographs. I think he was also out there the longest doing so. Evan left immediately and Patrick only hung around for a little bit. I don't remember actually if Patrick even signed autographs.

Another thing for me, which may not be in many of your cases, is how skaters act "outside" of the "spotlight". One of my friends used to skate and train at the Broadmoor and had quite a few bad experiences with some of the skaters. I won't name names, but if you're mean to a friend of mine, chances are I don't like you.

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Evan....he is just so plain boring. I doubt he would want to sign autographs if he wasn't paid to! I met him at the "meet and greet" for Stars on Ice, he was monotone and sounded so insincere. Not surprised he wouldn't stay long to sign autographs haha

Becki said:

Evan....he is just so plain boring. I doubt he would want to sign autographs if he wasn't paid to! I met him at the "meet and greet" for Stars on Ice, he was monotone and sounded so insincere. Not surprised he wouldn't stay long to sign autographs haha

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I've met Evan 4 times and each time he has been incredibly friendly. The first time I met him was at Nationals in Spokane when he did the AT&T autograph signing and it was incredibly rushed, we were told one autograph per person and Evan let me have 2 and was really nice, given the fact he was being rushed. The 2nd time was also in Spokane during the mens medalists signing and we didnt say anything to each other because once again, that was also rushed. The 3rd time was at the AT&T store in LA when he did the promotional signing and he was SO. FRIENDLY. We joked around and probably spent 15-20 minutes with him, it was so relaxed. He also let me hold his Olympic Gold Medal and we talked for a loong time. He signed 2 autographs for me and like 50 for my friend (she was sending some to fans in other states and what not). The 4th time was a month later in my home town, it was a promotional signing for the Skating and Gymnastics Spectacular. Once again he was so friendly and we joked around, he even remembered me from LA. Before the singing he skated with some of the kids and Nastia Liukin at my rink and talked to all of them and spent time with them. I don't think Evan is mean or in-genuine at all. In fact, he's on my list of favorite skater encounters. I think Evan is very laid back and friendly, people just want to see it the other way because they hate his skating/how USFS worships him/think he's greedy, etc. And I know not every one feels that way, but people will see what they want to see regardless.

And I know all skaters have their bad days, trust me I've heard some about Evan, but I've also heard some about Sasha Cohen, and when I met her, she was the biggest sweetheart. Every one is human and every one has their days.

Becki said:

Evan....he is just so plain boring. I doubt he would want to sign autographs if he wasn't paid to! I met him at the "meet and greet" for Stars on Ice, he was monotone and sounded so insincere. Not surprised he wouldn't stay long to sign autographs haha

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I dunno in 2008 Evan and Johnny were signing autographs and Johnny left as the zambonis were coming on the icea nd Evan still had a crowd and he stayed until security basically forced him off... every skater has their day when they aren't out there the whole time or at all.

Thanks so much, ryanbfan. It's great to hear of a good encounter (in your case, several) that someone personally verifies. As you say, everyone has good days and bad days, and very few people are squeaky clean all the time. It helps to remember that most skaters are teenagers or youngsters in their twenties, and if it's a competition they're probably nervous (if it's before a skate) or exhausted (if it's after). I remember seeing Nancy Kerrigan having her mini-meltdown after the Olympic long program in 1994 and feeling tremendously sorry for her, because she must have been so keyed up for weeks, and then she had that public reaction after the letdown of the narrow loss to Oksana. She just couldn't guard her tongue for one more second, and she came out sounding whiny and ungracious. Does that admittedly ill-advised reaction indicate her deepest character? I would doubt it. When I think of the way I sound in a bad mood, I just give thanks that I'm enough of a nonentity that no one notices my cranky behavior.

As for the Russians, there probably is something that is lost in the translation. Another factor is that they seem to take intense national pride in their accomplishments in gymnastics and skating, which they probably feel that they own in some way. I can't blame someone like Khorkina for behaving the way she does; she is an aristocrat of her field, and her ego probably keeps her from giving up in situations that would certainly crush me. Plushenko's cockiness is part of his personality, and I don't mind it. He's earned the right to strut a bit, with his enviable record. I'd say the jury's out on Tut: little kids who are on top of the world don't realize how arrogant they sound. They've probably never known defeat.

What skaters really give us is the performance they leave out on the ice. Maybe it's because I don't get to attend many live events, I'm happy just with that. The fact that many skaters manage to stay friendly and reasonably modest is gravy. I'm told that skaters like Browning and Czisny are usually if not always polite and warm to fans. I'm glad of that. But if one of them (Heaven forbid) has a bad day, it doesn't show that all their other behavior is fake. It just shows, as ryanbfan says, everyone is human and everyone has their days.

Speaking of cultural differences, I also remember when Mao got a lot of bad criticism for how she acted after winning her OSM. Personally I thought Mao had every right to be disappointed, she didn't act disrespectful on the podium but did look very disappointed... I think she felt she had a lot to live up to and felt like she let herself and a lot of people down when she didn't do as she had planned. I also know the Japanese take a lot of pride in their careers and technically this is Mao's career, so that says a lot also.

I have very little interest in skaters' personal lives unless something directly affects their skating or is too bad to ignore.

It's nice if they're generous and play the piano, and it's too bad if they eat meat and don't appreciate fans, but basically I'm just concerned with how well they skate. If some of them occasionally strike a fan as angry, lazy, arrogant, etc., I tend to take that as someone's impression, not fact--or else a reflection of the pressures of training, competing, and trying to make a living out of this rarefied sport.

Maybe this attitude comes in part from being an opera lover. To fill up a 3000-seat theater with the sound of your voice, and to inhabit the crazy roles they do that I love so much... Rigoletto, Cherubino, Octavian, Donna Elvira... takes a special kind of person. One of the most famous sopranos in the world once talked about the loneliness of hotel rooms and how the only company she had in her life was her dogs. Some singers manage some kind of normalcy under those pressures, some turn into monsters, and I accept that. In the end, I only care about what's on stage. I think skating -- another very individualistic activity -- may be almost as crazy-making as opera, with the blessing that it goes on for a shorter period of time. By 25 or so they stop and at least have a chance to go on to more balanced lives.

I also think it's nice to let folks have their privacy without being judged.

ryanbfan said:

Yes, I'd say their off ice attitude determines how much I like them. You can be a great athlete but when you have a sore loser/winner attitude it's a huge turnoff. I like to live by the quote lose with dignity, and win with grace. Brian Joubert was pretty angry at 2009 Worlds.. during the medal ceremony, he did not wave to the crowd, did not smile once, and during the victory lap he just stared straight ahead. It was kind of disgusting. However, he did stay after the medals and signed autographs. I think he was also out there the longest doing so. Evan left immediately and Patrick only hung around for a little bit. I don't remember actually if Patrick even signed autographs.

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Why is it disgusting for a skater to be unhappy? Have you considered the possibility that Joubert in 2009 was upset and disappointed with himself for skating badly, and not in the mood to act smiley and joyous? Certainly that was the sense I got from his post-event comments, and you could see how shocked and upset he was when he left the ice. I think that disappointment with the performance is probably the more likely explanation regarding Daisuke's behavior that was mentioned earlier in this thread, too - and BTW, I've heard they are both very nice to fans. But skaters can be disappointed about their performance, and it can show in their behavior - as you noted in bringing up the example of Mao at the Olympics. We're fortunate enough that when we experience something disappointing in life, there's no camera stuck in our face; we don't have to talk to the press, be gracious, smile and wave, etc. You can say that they should be able to cover their disappointment because it goes with the territory, but it's still unfair IMO to expect skaters to be happy and perky 24/7 (or to fake happy and perky).

I strongly suspect that the American concept of good sportsmanship is not one that holds across cultures. Specifically as to the Russian skaters, it seems to me that honesty is expected and valued more than being positive about everything - certainly it seems that way from interviews in the Russian press. And finally, re Plushenko and fluffs, I get the sense that he's playing a part in his interactions with the media. I think he can be hilarious, but often this is portrayed as arrogance in American media coverage, and Plushenko made to appear a villain.

I haven't ever tried to seek out any skaters post-competition, but I have heard nice things about many people; if I were to single out anyone, John Kerr is someone who's mentioned often as being really lovely to fans.

Buttercup said:

Why is it disgusting for a skater to be unhappy? Have you considered the possibility that Joubert in 2009 was upset and disappointed with himself for skating badly, and not in the mood to act smiley and joyous? Certainly that was the sense I got from his post-event comments. I think that's likely true for the example of Daisuke that was given earlier in this thread, too - and BTW, I've heard they are both very nice to fans. But skaters can be disappointed about their performance, and it can show in their behavior - as you noted in bringing up the example of Mao at the Olympics. We're fortunate enough that when we experience something disappointing in life, there's no camera stuck in our face; we don't have to talk to the press, be gracious, smile and wave, etc. You can say that they should be able to cover their disappointment because it goes with the territory, but it's still unfair IMO to expect skaters to be happy and perky 24/7 (or to fake happy and perky).

I strongly suspect that the American concept of good sportsmanship is not one that holds across cultures. Specifically as to the Russian skaters, it seems to me that honesty is expected and valued more than being positive about everything - certainly it seems that way from interviews in the Russian press. And finally, re Plushenko and fluffs, I get the sense that he's playing a part in his interactions with the media. I think he can be hilarious, but often this is portrayed as arrogance in media coverage, and Plushenko made to appear a villain.

I haven't ever tried to seek out any skaters post-competition, but I have heard nice things about many people; if I were to single out anyone, John Kerr is someone who's mentioned often as being really lovely to fans.

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I didn't completely make it out to be a negative thing that Joubert was so upset - I mentioned that he stayed for a very long time signing autographs, which many people probably wouldn't do if they were upset. That's more than the champion can say and he won.

ryanbfan said:

I didn't completely make it out to be a negative thing that Joubert was so upset - I mentioned that he stayed for a very long time signing autographs, which many people probably wouldn't do if they were upset.

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I was objecting to the use of the word disgusting to describe Joubert's behavior at the ceremony; calling someone's behavior disgusting is rather harsh, IMO, and I'll reiterate that I don't think he was disappointed with his placement, he was disappointed with his performance that led to that placement. I'm not surprised that he stayed for a long time to sign autographs, I've heard from people who've met him that he's really great with fans.

Buttercup said:

I was objecting to the use of the word disgusting to describe Joubert's behavior at the ceremony; calling someone's behavior disgusting is rather harsh, IMO, and I'll reiterate that I don't think he was disappointed with his placement, he was disappointed with his performance that led to that placement. I'm not surprised that he stayed for a long time to sign autographs, I've heard from people who've met him that he's really great with fans.

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I'm sorry you find it harsh, but it stands. I think he could've sucked it up and waved at least. As someone who used to dance and be quite the headcase, there were many times I had to suck it up after I screwed up a performance big time and my coach yelled at me in front of everyone. There is a time and place for disappointment, IMO.

ETA - and I know you're gonna call me out for a double standard. But I remember when Mao stood on that podium I immediately thought of Brian's incident. Mao, however, smiled for the press and waved to every one in the stands and waved during the victory lap. Brian did none of this. My point is he had every right to be "disappointed" but he could've not shown it like that.

ryanbfan said:

I'm sorry you find it harsh, but it stands. I think he could've sucked it up and waved at least. As someone who used to dance and be quite the headcase, there were many times I had to suck it up after I screwed up a performance big time and my coach yelled at me in front of everyone. There is a time and place for disappointment, IMO.

ETA - and I know you're gonna call me out for a double standard. But I remember when Mao stood on that podium I immediately thought of Brian's incident. Mao, however, smiled for the press and waved to every one in the stands and waved during the victory lap. Brian did none of this. My point is he had every right to be "disappointed" but he could've not shown it like that.

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I'm not going to call you out on it, because people can have different standards for different contexts and situations. I am, however, going to point out that not everyone will have the same views you have about what is an appropriate way of expressing disappointment, and that there are likely cultural differences in this respect.

But here's a podium pic from 2009 Worlds with everyone smiling. Can Joubert now be excused for not waving enough and Evan for not staying long enough?

Buttercup said:

I'm not going to call you out on it, because people can have different standards for different contexts and situations. I am, however, going to point out that not everyone will have the same views you have about what is an appropriate way of expressing disappointment, and that there are likely cultural differences in this respect.

But here's a podium pic from 2009 Worlds with everyone smiling. Can Joubert now be excused for not waving enough and Evan for not staying long enough?

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I'm not going to sit with you and debate over the internet. It's not worth it. You won't change your opinion nor will I. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

At one point during Kwan's peak, I had a talk about skating with one friend, and she said that she didn't like Kwan because "she cried." I thought, when was that? Probably 2002 sometime; I couldn't recall, and neither could my friend. But I can't imagine dropping a skater for one moment when some human feeling showed through. And Michelle, of all people, who's known for her resilience in defeat! But I guess seeing her in one particular situation pushed a button in my friend, who's not comfortable with displays of emotion. So one can never tell how another fan will react to a certain skater at a certain time. Some people gave up on Surya Bonaly because of her total meltdown at the 1994 worlds, when she literally took off her medal on the podium. Other people continued to like her because they enjoyed her approach to skating. It takes all kinds, and it should. Skating's a big world. Besides, skaters are as human in their victories and defeats as the rest of us--maybe sometimes more so, because the camera's on them in their most intense moments.

Cultural attitudes also play a part in how people relate to others. I recall having a conversation with Tamara Moskvina where she complained that Americans were always smiling, but not always sincerely. That when Americans asked "How Are You?" they really don't want you to tell them how you are really feeling. I had to laugh at the truth of that one. And at the OWG in Norway, all the staff had to take classes to learn always to welcome everyone with a big smile as that was not their natural inclination when dealing with total strangers. I have always found skaters to be very pleasant no matter what country they come from and many just a lot of fun to talk to, but since I am media that's not really surprising.

I've met a bunch of skaters off-ice and a 95% of them have been lovely and polite. I have like a list of the most patient and lovely skaters with fans off-ice based in my own experiences.
One skater I don't like her attitude off-ice is Carolina Kostner, I've seen her in 2 different years and she's not rude, but she's far from being as kind as the other skaters. Never saw her posing with a fan. And other fans who have met her in some other competitions, agree with me.

ryanbfan said:

Brian Joubert was pretty angry at 2009 Worlds.. during the medal ceremony, he did not wave to the crowd, did not smile once, and during the victory lap he just stared straight ahead. It was kind of disgusting.

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Unless English is your second language, you should know better that this is way too strong a word in describing the situation as well as in expressing your feeling. Can't skaters allow to have some unguarded, unhappy moments? How much do you want to demand a skater?!

sigrid said:

I've met a bunch of skaters off-ice and a 95% of them have been lovely and polite. I have like a list of the most patient and lovely skaters with fans off-ice based in my own experiences.
One skater I don't like her attitude off-ice is Carolina Kostner, I've seen her in 2 different years and she's not rude, but she's far from being as kind as the other skaters. Never saw her posing with a fan. And other fans who have met her in some other competitions, agree with me.

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1. That's the list I want to hear about, not the "who was having a bad day" list.
2. I've heard that before, unfortunately. But I still like her skating.