Mirai's long program

Poodlepal · Dec 4, 2011

In general, I think that women's skating is incredibly boring and has been for several years, whether it's due to the skating scoring or just the crop of skaters that we have up. Actually, men's is getting boring as well. Everyone seems to try to be in the same mold. Especially with the women, the music is slow and almost slow and almost funereal. The choreography and interpretation seems to consist of looking miserable or tortured to the slow and funereal music. Both Carolina's and Mirai's are in this vein, but Carolina pulls it off a lot better--whether she's in better shape, has more talent, or it just suits her better is a matter of conjecture. Mirai was a cute Carmen and probably would've made a good Geisha, if she'd skated well last season. Now she's just another Asian girl in a bun skating to slow music--one of many, from various different countries.

I think there should be some kind of bonus if the skaters portray a character, whether it be Carmen, a swan, Juliette, a Russian peasant, a Bond girl--just somebody! Otherwise, you're differentiating between multiple ballerinas doing very similar jumps to very similar music (at least tempo wise). It's no wonder why people can't accept that the person who won should've won. Nobody really stands out.

prettykeys · Dec 4, 2011

I loved Mirai's Pirates of the Caribbean SP. It suited her perfectly.

And Meditation From Thais is beautiful music...in addition to those already mentioned, B/S skated a wonderful program to it for their Olympics.

Also, just for the record, os is not Korean or even part Korean, and this Korean (me) does not appreciate the implied insult on Koreans or the suggestion that somehow we are the only ones capable of being fervent fans of YuNa. :rolleye:

Olympia · Dec 4, 2011

Prettykeys, just in case you need support for that idea, I am not Korean, and I am a huge YuNa fan. Just to mix things up, I'm also a huge Mao fan. (I'm not Japanese either.) I think that both these women are treasures of their respective countries, of skating, and of the world. I don't think either of them is perfect (though they both were just about perfect in Vancouver), but they are the class of the field. I have no trouble admiring them more than anyone currently skating for my own country, because at the moment we don't have anyone as extraordinary stepping up to the plate. (Except, in her way, for Alissa, whom I dearly love and fervently support--but even I can't praise her jumps!)

ETA: B/S did skate to Thais? Sheesh, no wonder I associated it with them. It just seemed to me that this music would be perfect for them. And apparently it was! >blush<

Simoncat · Dec 4, 2011

I think Spartacus is beautiful,but I think it is a poor choice for Mirai Nagasu. As long as she is with her present coach she will be choreographed by Lori Nicol. Case closed. As far as the dress is ,her former coach,Charleen Wong skated to Spartacus way way back at Canadian Nationals. Her dress was simple and memorable-cream,red,and gold. I do feel that no amount of talent can make up for lack of work ethic. I also wonder if it had been anyone but Mirai as alternate whether Rachael would have withdrawn from World's. It would not be the first time an injured skater pushed ahead when the alternate was the one crowding her.

drivingmissdaisy · Dec 4, 2011

Jammers said:
Sometimes i wonder if Frank and Lori aren't trying to make Mirai another Michelle clone. They should both realize that Mirai isn't that kind of skater and that she needs something uptempo and fun.

Exactly. I see Mirai as a much better version of NNN. I can see it being hard to choreograph for Miria because she can really sell the cutsie numbers, so obviously being able to show personality is important. On the other hand, as she is becoming a woman she probably wants to show more maturity and range of emotions. I think this was something Irina had a tough time with after the 98 Olympics, as she struggled with her skating identity in 1999 (among other problems, such as weight gain and jump issues). To me Irina got it right with her programs in 99-00 and 00-01, striking the perfect balance between bubbly and maturity.

skateluvr · Dec 5, 2011

jenaj said:
I don't think Meditation is a boring piece--Shen & Zhao and Caroline Zhang both skated memorable programs to that music. But I do agree that Yu Na's Meditation was boring. Maybe it just isn't meant for exhibition skating.

Many agreed with you at that time. And I never said the music was boring, the program/performance was lacking after two great skates for Yuna.

So I am attacked by a Yuna uber for being heartless... Thanks ImaginaryPoque for pointing out his/her cutting personal remarks to me, the OP.

I have eyes ears heart. Do you OS168 to apologize? We are discussing only. I am not Japanese. Not sure where that came from.

My better response would be that Yuna does well with peices that showcase her big talents, speed and flow over the ice, great jums, huge jumps. It's like watching Irina do adagios. it's ok but doesn't sing. She'd slept an hour was exhausted for that skate.

skateluvr · Dec 5, 2011

prettykeys said:
I loved Mirai's Pirates of the Caribbean SP. It suited her perfectly. And Meditation From Thais is beautiful music...in addition to those already mentioned, B/S skated a wonderful program to it for their Olympics.

Also, just for the record, os is not Korean or even part Korean, and this Korean (me) does not appreciate the implied insult on Koreans or the suggestion that somehow we are the only ones capable of being fervent fans of YuNa.

There was no insult, implied or otherwise. I take it you just don't like me criticizing your idol. I have seen Koreans get very, very angry at any implied or direct criticism of Yuna. And hello! She has plenty of non korean fans like me, but I can be objective while ubers clearly cannot.

Tonichelle · Dec 5, 2011

Olympia said:
ETA: B/S did skate to Thais? Sheesh, no wonder I associated it with them. It just seemed to me that this music would be perfect for them. And apparently it was! >blush<

Wasn't that their music for their 2002 Olympic LP? You know, the program that with the smallest error beat out S/P's Love Story? LOL

skateluvr · Dec 5, 2011

It sure was, and it was gorgeous. Best skaters since G&G though S&P were great too. Their SP Lady Caliph was a master peice. Anton was such a great, expressive male pair skater. Miss pairskating like those couples. No one really moves me currently despite nice tricks.

OS · Dec 6, 2011

skateluvr said:
Many agreed with you at that time. And I never said the music was boring, the program/performance was lacking after two great skates for Yuna.

So I am attacked by a Yuna uber for being heartless... Thanks ImaginaryPoque for pointing out his/her cutting personal remarks to me, the OP.

I have eyes ears heart. Do you OS168 to apologize? We are discussing only. I am not Japanese. Not sure where that came from.

My better response would be that Yuna does well with peices that showcase her big talents, speed and flow over the ice, great jums, huge jumps. It's like watching Irina do adagios. it's ok but doesn't sing. She'd slept an hour was exhausted for that skate.

I wasn't going to continue this charade to icite something. I admit as a music lover, I might have reacted too strongly when I read one of the all time greatest piece of classical music and program described as as snooze fest. Upon reflection, I was wrong, I take everything back. You just have poor taste.

You make it like being a Yuna fan is something wrong and dirty on this board, which I take offense to. The fact you think I disagree is 'likely' because I am Korean is incredibly offensive. That is why I asked if you are Japanese to see how you feel like it.

I have never hide the fact I am fans of hers along with many skaters like Daisuke, Hanyu, Mirai, Michelle, Stephane, Akiko, Jeremy, some early Alissa's programs, along with some of Mao's program as well. We are all fans of skaters and skating here, is it necessary to call someone an uber just because you disagree with them? Next time I disagree with someone, and by start to call them Michelle Ubers, Chan Ubers, Sasha Ubers does that make my disagreement enlightened and valid?

And no... Yuna is not my idol, she's just an ordinary girl who happens to be a fantastic skater.

brightphoton · Dec 6, 2011

Hear that? You don't like a piece of music that os likes! Clearly you have poor taste. :laugh:

mskater93 · Dec 6, 2011

What if I like the music but don't like the program itself?

I like Meditation and the Protopopovs and B/S had the best programs to that beautiful piece of music. I thought Yuna's EX program was underwhelming at the Olympics because it had no energy.

OS · Dec 6, 2011

brightphoton said:
Hear that? You don't like a piece of music that os likes! Clearly you have poor taste.

Yup. I am totally cheeky and arrogant but I am also right! :biggrin:

And I'd say the same thing to anyone who don't have appreciation for the Beatles, Bob Marley, acoustic ethnic folk along and many of the all time great slow and snoozy classics, so i do try to be fair.

Skating preference wise, each to their own ... while the Olympic version of meditation is not my favourite (The ATS LA last day version was), but then I'd give her a break since she just maxed out with the skates of her life. Likewise I doubt any skater would able to perform at their peak condition after just did 'that' at the Olympics.

ivy · Dec 6, 2011

Poodlepal said:
I think there should be some kind of bonus if the skaters portray a character, whether it be Carmen, a swan, Juliette, a Russian peasant, a Bond girl--just somebody! Otherwise, you're differentiating between multiple ballerinas doing very similar jumps to very similar music (at least tempo wise). It's no wonder why people can't accept that the person who won should've won. Nobody really stands out.

Interesting. I feel just the opposite. So often I feel like skaters put on these characters as a easy fix for interpretation. Part of the problem is there is not really a good way to carry the character into a triple jump, or most spins or other tech elements. A good example to me is Mao's program this year, which I like, and I like the music. What I don't like is when she gets 'harem arms' (or what ever you want to call them). For me the the program would be better if she skated in a simpler outfit that refelected her own style sense and eliminated aspects of the choreography that are meant to portray ancient Persian culture. The music, to me, has as much to do with 19th century Russia as ancient Persia. I'd be happier with an abtract approach, based on what the skater and the choreographer hear in the music itself.

Back to Mirai. I think the comparison to Irina searching for a mature skating identity is a good one. Though I think they'll land in different spaces. Of course I don't know Mirai at all but she strikes me as poppy, quirky, modern. Who's the Katy Perry or Lady Gaga of classical music? Shae Lynn and Jeff Buttle seem like good people for Mirai to work with.

burntBREAD · Dec 6, 2011

I really love "Pictures from an Exhibition" by Mussorgsky and it could work for Mirai...though actually I think it could work for many skaters. Each piece is so different because the whole suite is literally interpretations of artwork connected by parts called Promenades (literally walking) that do actually represent the walking in the exhibit between the pieces of art! Really awesome music. But the problem lies in its variety: none of the pieces are really long enough for a long program and I'm not sure how well they'll fit together. The parts "Tuileries, Limoges, and Ballet of the Unhatched Chickens" are light, effervescent, quirky, and very Mirai.

Of course, there is a character-piece in this suite as well. "Baba-Yaga", the witch who lives in the house on chicken legs and eats children :laugh:

. Too bad Mirai's already done a witch (though IMO she could've done even more in that SP).

OS · Dec 6, 2011

Other than Westside story: I want to live in America. When I think of Mirai, I think of modernism, dynamism, charm, energy, athleticism, impact and amazing powerful fast spins.

Mirai may wanted to be appear more mature, but she shouldn't let go of the most unique aspect of her charisma for something she can't connect with that just ends up feeling false. She could however show a more mature and sophisticated version of exuberance with a evenly paced but well tensioned music like Karl Jenkin's Palladio Allegretto 1st movement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGKumFcd0Yk

She can just skate as herself without character and make it into an upfront demonstration of american technical/power prowess (but please add the 3:3). The music have the potential making of an epic program, but they need to be more considerate with regards to the placement of key elements. And importantly, she need to reference to the beat carefully to realize the effect successfully. From my observation her Spartacus are skated differently from her 1st version to her later versions, and I'd argue her 1st attempt was more successful musically .

The only other skater I think can bring justice to this music is Yuna Kim (Considering her Danse Macabre), but given Mirai is my next favourite among the ladies and need more of a boost, so why not

Ilvskating · Dec 6, 2011

Who would consider Katerina Witt not mature? That's the way I think Mirai needs to go.

skateluvr · Dec 6, 2011

mskater93 said:
What if I like the music but don't like the program itself? I like Meditation and the Protopopovs and B/S had the best programs to that beautiful piece of music. I thought Yuna's EX program was underwhelming at the Olympics because it had no energy.

OH NO ANOTHER, AND ANOTHER POSTER WITH NO TASTE! Amazing OS can't attack ALL of us. We all agree music is great -but program performance was underwhelming (snoozefest). Wow. This is some rabid poster to say all that. I accept your "apology.":disapp:

Mathman · Dec 6, 2011

Os168 has moved on. (see post 76). Time for the rest of us to do so, too. :yes:

skateluvr · Dec 7, 2011

I saw a dress Nicole Bobek had for maybe CaesarsII which is exactly the dress Mirai needs for Sparticus! I'm talking perfection in every way. No, not the sheer sparkle halter style. I lost the page. It's perfect. How can I find that pic?

Mirai's long program

Poodlepal

prettykeys

Olympia

Simoncat

drivingmissdaisy

skateluvr

skateluvr

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

skateluvr

OS

Sedated by Modonium

brightphoton

mskater93

OS

Sedated by Modonium

ivy

burntBREAD

OS

Sedated by Modonium

Ilvskating

skateluvr

Mathman

skateluvr

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