Fire and command | Golden Skate

Fire and command

Joined
Mar 14, 2006
This is inspired by the "hommage à la Kwan" thread.

I have not been a big Kwan fan as I found other skaters more interesting and appealing. And yet... watching some of the skates mentioned on this board over the years, I've begun to appreciate how remarkable she is. For me, two things stand out in particular:

Fire -- this lady loves to compete. She lives to be out there on the ice. She never has that startled-deer look but is overjoyed to skate her programs and win. The word "emotion" comes up in almost everyone's praise of her skating.

Command -- she is completely at ease on the ice. Rarely, rarely does she slip or fall. She executes what she planned like a powerful general. She must have cast terror into the hearts of many an opponent, or forced them to take their game into risky territory in an effort to fight back. You could call her "icy" in her self-control. ;) Of course the emotions she projects are in contrast quite warm. No wonder audiences loved such a champion.

Both of these qualities are rare and are prized wherever they turn up. My questions are:

Do they usually go together?
Are they inborn or can they be learned and trained?
What other skaters consistently have either of them, or both?

The only ones that come to mind for me as exemplars of both qualities are Plushenko and Yagudin. We haven't seen enough of Tut in seniors yet, but she shows signs that she might have this precious combination.

A skater who had fire but not command was Sasha. :cry: I'm grateful for the fire, though! :yay:
 

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Country
United-States
A skater who had fire but not command was Sasha. :cry: I'm grateful for the fire, though! :yay:

I agree 100% as you well know. Would you say the same about Johnny, fire but not command??

I am hoping that Xavier will possess both.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Silver, what a wonderful thread, and you stated the premise splendidly. I completely agree with your examples, too. I'm especially interested that you noticed these qualities in Michelle despite not being an intense fan of hers. While I am one, I'm not a super-fan of Plushenko's, and I notice and honor these traits in him. I was especially aware of them in the Vancouver Olympic long program, where the man did not flinch for the tiniest fraction of a second. Talk about owning the ice!

I would love Michelle anyway, I think. After all, my other two favorite skaters of recent times are those renowned headcases Sasha Cohen and Alissa Czisny. (Cohen, I hasten to add, racked up a considerable number of medals for a headcase, so she doesn't completely fit the category.) Kwan's musicality, her almost eerie ability to bring me into the mood, won me over from her earliest senior performances. But I'm extra-devoted to Kwan because of that quality of always rising to the occasion. She had the look of someone who was exactly where she belonged, and she always delivered with everything she had.

Definitely Yagudin is another. Witt is, too, though I tend to be less enthusiastic about her. Her skating doesn't fill me with wonder the way Kwan's does, or Yagudin's. I think I'd put Daisuke in here, though his injury has held him back. Do you think Mao Asada is? I do, because she just doesn't give up. If she trashes the SP, she claws her way back in the long. It's just the opposite of Mirai, who lets winning the short spook her into falling apart in the long.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
My humble responses -- can't say about Witt. I should watch more of her but I don't like what I've seen. However, from her record, this *sounds* right.

Daisuke is a tough case. I think he would be in this category, but with the injuries and his insistence on putting in an element he can't execute (how un-Kwanian), he does not command as often as he could. But fire, my gosh, yes.

Mao -- not IMO. She makes so many mistakes, and so often has looked depressed, discouraged, or worse. She's far more fragile and inconsistent than Sasha, IMO. Neither fire nor ice, to me, with some exceptions, like Vancouver.

Dee, I'm not sure about Johnny. I don't think he really loves to compete (fire), does he? And who is Xavier??

I wonder if Yuzuru will rise to combine fire and ice. He's special. But it's way too soon to say.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
No, Johnny usually was very introverted, skated to quite music...competing was not his strong point.
 

ivy

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
I've spent the last few day watching ALL the GP single skates (recovering from the flu does have it's advantage :) ) and had been thinking about MK before this came - what made her special, why she could mesmerize me with a spiral, and everything else. Fire and command seems to cover it well - if you have both you've got the making of a champ (add skating skills and mix!).

Another thing Michelle aways had going for her was that she seemed so nice and sincere, you could really root for her. Plus some extra magic too.

I can see these qualities in Plushenko, but I never rooted for him or felt emotionally invested in his programs. Yagudin, had both also, lost the command when he was injured, but got it back better then ever.

YuNa seemed to have both. For sure the command, and she seemed to have the fire. The fact she's out for now, makes me wonder a bit if she had the fire. Always seemed like an excellent competitor and I don't blame her at all for wanting to take some away from the spot light. Seems like MK would never pass up to the opportunity to try for another World Championship if she was healthy.

It may seem that Patrick makes too many mistakes to say he has command of the ice, but I'd say it's cause he's pushing himself (hence some fire). I bet if he skated in the 6.0 era we'd have seen more clean (though less complex) skates from him. He does usually deliver when it counts and he still has years to go.

I could see Javier getting there. He does have a come onto the ice looking cool and collected. Like he knows why he's there and what he's gonna do.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Sorry, it's Javier Fernandez. I am keeping my eye on him. He was just in a Cup of Russia. He is now being coached by Brian Orser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyQsLgCZ28w&feature=related

BTW, forgot to say I think Alexei has/had it all!!!
Duh! I should have known whom you meant. I'm watching him too. He definitely seems to have the technical capacity and the coolness under pressure. My question is the fire - there is something almost too laid-back about him. Kwan had this great taut quality - coiled up and ready to spring.

And Alexei - what can I say? Simply the greatest (as Kwanford would say). "Man in the Iron Mask" at the 2002 Olys is the number one vid I would choose if I were trying to turn someone on to skating.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Did anyone mention Tara? The amazing fire, the command. Sarah had it too. Both spitfires in the best sense and great Oly skates-so memorable and so worth watching. But no one had it over a 10 year run as did MK. She WILL one day be called the best skater in history, to parrot peggy. Glad this was inspired by my homage to her. No one loved competing more than Michelle. Yuna had it for a long time but it's over now.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Oh, Tara, absolutely! :thumbsup: The glee, confidence, and ability she had really make me wonder "what if." No doubt she wonders too.

ETA: As a matter of fact, I think both fire and command apply to Sasha too... in the SP.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Did anyone mention Tara? The amazing fire, the command. Sarah had it too. Both spitfires in the best sense and great Oly skates-so memorable and so worth watching. But no one had it over a 10 year run as did MK. She WILL one day be called the best skater in history, to parrot peggy. Glad this was inspired by my homage to her. No one loved competing more than Michelle. Yuna had it for a long time but it's over now.

I think YuNa was driven by outside forces as well as inner fire. One factor was that she seems to have felt a duty to her country in general and to Korea's skating program in particular (which barely existed without her), and of course those entities put tremendous pressure on her to attain gold and nothing else. This wasn't the case for Michelle, who comes from a country with plenty of other gold-medal skaters in ladies alone, not to mention men's. Remember that both times Michelle missed Olympic gold, she was defeated by Americans. All of Michelle's urge to compete seems to have come from her alone. Moreover, she clearly enjoyed the process as well as the goal. So she stayed in the game as long as it pleased her to do so. YuNa gave evidence that besides her own ambition, she was expressing the ambition of those around her as well, and that can get very constricting. As soon as she achieved every goal possible in skating, she seems to have lost the taste for the process, and who can blame her. She felt a sense of destiny, and she fulfilled her destiny in the most amazing way imaginable. (I'll never forget the tension and achievement of that long program in Vancouver, never.) I think she used herself up in getting to 2010, and she just couldn't call it up anymore. The great thing is that, unlike Sarah Hughes, she didn't seem to lose her interest in skating itself. She seems to be having a grand time producing skating events of various kinds. It gives me great delight to see her skating in the less pressurized atmosphere of show skating and bringing life to the worldwide pro circuit in the bargain.
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
I adore Yu-Na. I love what she represents: raw talent and extreme work ethic. But I have to admit, when I hear/read interviews where she pretty much all but says she hates to compete, I am disappointed. I can't imagine the stress and pressure she had to deal with, but still...I had hoped she loves doing what she does.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I adore Yu-Na. I love what she represents: raw talent and extreme work ethic. But I have to admit, when I hear/read interviews where she pretty much all but says she hates to compete, I am disappointed. I can't imagine the stress and pressure she had to deal with, but still...I had hoped she loves doing what she does.
My feelings exactly. It takes away from my appreciation of her magnificent achievements on the ice. I respect her but don't get excited by her because she doesn't seem that excited herself.

Now Sasha, OTOH... that Malaguena is astounding. What a game face! She knew she ruled in the SP.
 

cosmos

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
I adore Yu-Na. I love what she represents: raw talent and extreme work ethic. But I have to admit, when I hear/read interviews where she pretty much all but says she hates to compete, I am disappointed. I can't imagine the stress and pressure she had to deal with, but still...I had hoped she loves doing what she does.

YuNa never said she hated to compete. She said that when she was well prepared to compete she wan't really nervous at all but when she wan't she was afraid to compete. It seems that she never enjoyed tedious training,particularly flexibility training, though. She always showed joy and happiness after successful performance. She loves what she is doing. Just, she relvealed honestly that there is a painful part in a very successful skater's life.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Of course it is Zhenya. He's #1! :cool: :biggrin:

Seriously, when I saw those words ~ fire and command ~ the only one I could think of was Evgeni Plushenko. Of course there are others, but none like him, his longevity in the sport speaks for itself. :bow:
 
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