Patrick Chan feeling unappreciated in Canada

blue dog said:

He clearly hasn't been introduced to the Chan Gang. Introduction to them can end all thoughts of competing for another country.

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Whoever the Chan Gang, who is to say Patrick himself entertained and expressed thoughts of competing for another country in figure skating? A hypothetical question was posed to him, something along the line if he would represent both Canada and China if he could, why would he say no to that, in China his ancestral land where he was beginning to be known?

Patrick may want to talk to Chen Lu, who was at times at odds with the Chinese federation.

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Completely different time and issue. Chen Lu has not been the only one at odds with her/his own federation. Johnny Weir is vocal about his feelings about the USFSA and Lysacek is currently having some disagreement with them as well. Alexander Mojorov had the infamous momentary infliction of Tourette syndrome throwing out the string of curses against his federation. I am sure many skaters quietly harbor some dissatisfaction about their treatment by their federations. All these cannot be solely used to judge a federation and Chen Lu's conficts with her federation at the time has no bearing on any current Chinese skater's relationship with the current Chinese federation. Such selective siting of events do not support a position taken about the subject at hand.

Good comes with bad. It's a whole package. All super talented people tend to have such gap if people around them do not specifically help them in addressing the issue. It doesn't help that Chan is the dear precious only child in the family. There is a saying, "A pearl on the palm." He has huge ego. This ego has taken him to the top. Though I agree that he should be more careful and learn to hide some of his own thoughts when he speaks in public, I believe people should have more tolerance on such. He'll be mature sooner or later.

The Chinese federation appreciates Chinese athletes ... when they're winning medals. They love their gymnasts. Gold medals, who loves gold medals? Everyone loves gold medals! They love their weightlifters. World records every Olympics. The winningest of them all.

Except when their athletes get old and stuff. Once they're injured or get too fat or weak to be of any use, they're out. They live on the street: no non-athletic skills, uneducated, illiterate, and unable to hold a good job or have a normal life after retirement. I'm sure you're familiar with that common story, although I'm wondering why Patrick isn't.

Is figure skating in China different? I'm betting on "maybe a little bit better, but in general, nope."

Spun Silver said:

Y
The puzzle is why he hasn't learned to be careful and do the "I just want to go out there and do my best" thing yet.

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He needs to learn his cliches. Maybe someone should get him a copy of Bull Durham:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeVca9MwDX8

Spun Silver said:

Patrick seems to wander into this kind of random rudeness by accident, because of his youth. It would make more sense if he were a true "bad boy" of sports with a giant ego and temper, like John MacEnroe, but it's pretty hard to picture Patrick as a bad boy (and I'm not sure skating tolerates such personalities, maybe because of the audience's main gender... see wallylutz's post (#15) in the Practice reports thread). He's a good boy who talks too much. The puzzle is why he hasn't learned to be careful and do the "I just want to go out there and do my best" thing yet.

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I don't get the sense that Chan is a negative person or a bad boy, either - but he is past the point where his statements can be attributed to youth and inexperience. He's not a teenager, and he's in his - what is it, 5th senior season? By all accounts Patrick is an intelligent young man, and I agree with you: he should have learned by now what sort of comments are appropriate in an interview and which opinions should be kept to himself. It is possible to be honest and express one's thoughts without getting into the sort of situations Chan seems to.

louisa05 said:

He needs to learn his cliches. Maybe someone should get him a copy of Bull Durham:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeVca9MwDX8

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Perfect! :thumbsup:

brightphoton said:

The Chinese federation appreciates Chinese athletes ... when they're winning medals. They love their gymnasts. Gold medals, who loves gold medals? Everyone loves gold medals! They love their weightlifters. World records every Olympics. The winningest of them all.

Except when their athletes get old and stuff. Once they're injured or get too fat or weak to be of any use, they're out. They live on the street: no non-athletic skills, uneducated, illiterate, and unable to hold a good job or have a normal life after retirement. I'm sure you're familiar with that common story, although I'm wondering why Patrick isn't.

Is figure skating in China different? I'm betting on "maybe a little bit better, but in general, nope."

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Here comes again. Examples please, before you throw out these horrible, eye-popping words!

I don't expect (or want) everyone to just parrot that old line about just wanting to go out and skate their best. Most people who have the drive and ambition to make it to the world podium want a whole lot more than that, and there's no sense in pretending otherwise. But although I often prefer honesty (and often thought people's quickness to criticize skaters for not saying the proper thing could get pretty ridiculous), something about Chan's comments here still rubbed me the wrong way. Particularly the part about being remembered "out of fifty skaters at the world championships". It's fine by me if he thinks CoP is flawed and encourages cookie cutter skating (and a legitimate point). It's also fine if he wants to do something great or memorable. But his comments implied more than that: it seems he sees himself as the sole bright light in a sea of CoP-produced robots. What makes him so sure none of his opponents can do anything memorable? It's not like he's the only one who stands out or has memorable programs.

SkateFiguring said:

Completely different time and issue. Chen Lu has not been the only one at odds with her/his own federation. Johnny Weir is vocal about his feelings about the USFSA and Lysacek is currently having some disagreement with them as well. Alexander Mojorov had the infamous momentary infliction of Tourette syndrome throwing out the string of curses against his federation. I am sure many skaters quietly harbor some dissatisfaction about their treatment by their federations. All these cannot be solely used to judge a federation and Chen Lu's conficts with her federation at the time has no bearing on any current Chinese skater's relationship with the current Chinese federation. Such selective siting of events do not support a position taken about the subject at hand.

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This is a gross understatement of Lu Chen's "dissatisfaction" with her federation. How about actually being terrified to even speak English (which she knew well enough) at a press conference, and to look at her "handlers" at every question, to see if she could answer even in Chinese. We in the media were all very concerned about her overall well-being. Chan wasn't hatched from an egg just a few years ago, so he would have had to train under the strictures of that time if he even had the opportunity at all. Sure things have changed in recent years, but we can't forget what athletes had to endure during their career just a decade or so ago.

Rachmaninoff said:

I don't expect (or want) everyone to just parrot that old line about just wanting to go out and skate their best. Most people who have the drive and ambition to make it to the world podium want a whole lot more than that, and there's no sense in pretending otherwise. But although I often prefer honesty (and often thought people's quickness to criticize skaters for not saying the proper thing could get pretty ridiculous), something about Chan's comments here still rubbed me the wrong way. Particularly the part about being remembered "out of fifty skaters at the world championships". It's fine by me if he thinks CoP is flawed and encourages cookie cutter skating (and a legitimate point). It's also fine if he wants to do something great or memorable. But his comments implied more than that: it seems he sees himself as the sole bright light in a sea of CoP-produced robots. What makes him so sure none of his opponents can do anything memorable? It's not like he's the only one who stands out or has memorable programs.

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IMO, Chan is the very poster boy for cookie cutter CoP. It's well done cookie cutter stuff, but I don't find his programs original or attention grabbing; just technically accomplished. Compare that to Savchenko and Szolkowy, who are clearly interested in challenging themselves and in being innovative with their programs and concepts; that's how you stand out with a CoP-friendly program, not by sticking as many transitions possible between the elements.

SkateFiguring said:

Whoever the Chan Gang, who is to say Patrick himself entertained and expressed thoughts of competing for another country in figure skating? A hypothetical question was posed to him, something along the line if he would represent both Canada and China if he could, why would he say no to that, in China his ancestral land where he was beginning to be known?

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It is quite logical and possible that Chan was asked about his thought on representing other country. The reporter could have been trying to lead Chan into some controversial statements in order to get some shock values. Then intentionally omitted some parts and reported other parts. The media tricks!!!:disapp:

Buttercup said:

I don't get the sense that Chan is a negative person or a bad boy, either - but he is past the point where his statements can be attributed to youth and inexperience. He's not a teenager, and he's in his - what is it, 5th senior season? By all accounts Patrick is an intelligent young man, and I agree with you: he should have learned by now what sort of comments are appropriate in an interview and which opinions should be kept to himself. It is possible to be honest and express one's thoughts without getting into the sort of situations Chan seems to.

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This is if one believes the media 100%. I would look at the overall picture from all reports and interviews, as well as real life actions, instead of grabbing on one report to focus on and extrapolate into a person's complete profile and character. Of course it's usually the controversal reports that get such treatment and the media know this very well.

Even seasoned celebrities get misrepresented regularly and purposely. I seriously question the integrity of today's media and many so called journalists, not Patrick Chan's. This view of mine is not due to the subject of figure skating or entertainment, where slanders are often more obvious, but because of my years of research on economy and politics.

I have known and interacted with some of the rich and famous in my life. They are more than and often different from what the public read about. A poorly written article can never be trusted to be a true characterization of the subject.

KKonas said:

This is a gross understatement of Lu Chen's "dissatisfaction" with her federation. How about actually being terrified to even speak English (which she knew well enough) at a press conference, and to look at her "handlers" at every question, to see if she could answer even in Chinese. We in the media were all very concerned about her overall well-being. Chan wasn't hatched from an egg just a few years ago, so he would have had to train under the strictures of that time if he even had the opportunity at all. Sure things have changed in recent years, but we can't forget what athletes had to endure during their career just a decade or so ago.

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I am aware of the hardship Chen went through due to the treatment of the Chinese federation, for whatever reasons, which made some of her performances all the more moving and heart wrenching. But that was then this is now. A decade sees hugh and incomparable changes in China in all espects of the society. Siting an individual's experiences in the past does not lead to any conclusion of the current state of affairs.

The interview with an even younger skater, Yuzuru Hanyu, that was also posted in the Practice reports thread could be a model for Patrick. http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/sports/news/20111208p2g00m0sp089000c.html Yuzuru already understands how to talk to the media, balancing a desire to win with a sense of where he still needs to improve as well as his position in his country. His one expression of self-regard (the "I got here on my own" part) is surrounded by exemplary expressions of respect, which leads me to think it may have come out a little wrong in translation.

On performing for their home countries:

Yuzuru: "... the people in the disaster areas have been making a big effort of their own too so obviously it would be great if I could get a result that would provide them with courage."

Patrick: "Sometimes I feel we are not appreciated for how much work we put in. If my parents hadn't emigrated from China and say I had skated for China, things would have been very different... I want to skate well but my main concern is to satisfy myself and make myself enjoy what I do on the ice [emphasis added] and hopefully the audience can feel the same thing. If they feel they have understood the program and have been really been touched, then I feel much more accomplished than if I won a medal."

On their own skating and competing at high levels:

Patrick: "[The other skaters are] doing the same thing, just maybe in a different order. So I hope I can be somewhat of a throwback skater in the fact that I can bring excitement back. I can be like the black sheep of the herd, be different and be unique and be someone people will remember out of the 50 skaters at the world championships.... I've got absolutely nothing to prove to anyone," said Chan, who holds the records for the highest ever scores in both the short (93.02 points) and free (187.96) programs. "I skate just to satisfy my own desire and not care about other people's desire for me to do well. I barely have any interest any more in how well I do in competitions."

Yuzuru: "It wasn't because of the disaster that I qualified for the Grand Prix final, I got here on my own merit... It hasn't really sunk in that I am at the GP final. It just feels like just another overseas event. I didn't even think I would get this far and I am sure the atmosphere will be something else. Hopefully I can keep on improving and moving in the direction."

I'll say it again - what Patrick does on ice is all I really care about, but my literary side can't help taking an interest in character revealing itself through speech. And it's startling to hear him talk about how he'll stand out in the boring crowd of COP skaters when he's about to go up against Takahashi, Hanyu, and Abbott. If those are cookie-cutter skaters, I'll gladly take the cookies!

Bluebonnet said:

Here comes again. Examples please, before you throw out these horrible, eye-popping words!

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Oh, I'm being horrible and eye-popping?

Ai Dongmei: runner, sold her medals, sells clothes on the street
Zhao Yonghua: crippled from skiing, can't afford diabetes medicine
Zhang Shangwu: world champion gymnast, performs tricks on the street
Zou Chunlan: weight lifting lady who won a bunch of medals and now cleans backs at a bathhouse for 10 cents per session because she's illiterate

I hear you. You're going say I’m being terrible, and I’m only highlighting the famous cases that the Chinese media has chosen to focus on. It's not all like that.

"Of some 300,000 retired athletes, 80 percent were battling injury, poverty and unemployment, the China Sports Dailynewspaper said."
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/agency/2011-07-16/content_3216692.html

Spun Silver said:

Patrick: "[The other skaters are] doing the same thing, just maybe in a different order. So I hope I can be somewhat of a throwback skater in the fact that I can bring excitement back. I can be like the black sheep of the herd, be different and be unique and be someone people will remember out of the 50 skaters at the world championships.... I've got absolutely nothing to prove to anyone," said Chan, who holds the records for the highest ever scores in both the short (93.02 points) and free (187.96) programs. "I skate just to satisfy my own desire and not care about other people's desire for me to do well. I barely have any interest any more in how well I do in competitions."

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then I also don't have a problem with Yuzuru or Daisuke winning Gold

SkateFiguring said:

This is if one believes the media 100%. I would look at the overall picture from all reports and interviews, as well as real life actions, instead of grabbing on one report to focus on and extrapolate into a person's complete profile and character. Of course it's usually the controversal reports that get such treatment and the media know this very well.

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Oh, I know better than to believe everything I see in the media. That having been said, Chan does have quite the track record of making controversial (to put it mildly) statements, more so than any other active skater I can think of - so I'm inclined to take this report more seriously than if the same comments had been attributed to someone like Daisuke Takahashi, or Jeremy Abbott; the latter has not shied away from sharing his thoughts and opinions, but he has been more careful in how he expresses them.

I would guess that some of what Chan said has been taken out of context, but that much of it is reflective of his views. If so, he deserves some of the criticism now coming his way (though obviously not the vile racist stuff in the G&M comments). I expect to see some sort of statement from Patrick soon; his comments are attracting the wrong sort of attention, and this time they're not about some foreign skater who might be viewed as a more acceptable target (e.g. Joubert, Plushenko); by making what can be perceived as negative, ungracious comments about his own country, he's gone too far. He will have to do some damage control, or he will likely face some unpleasant consequences.

Again - I'm not making any inferences about Patrick Chan's character; I've never met the guy, and haven't heard anything negative from people who have. But he cannot continue sticking his skate in his mouth every other time he opens it and expect to get away with it.

Spun Silver said:

The interview with an even younger skater, Yuzuru Hanyu, that was also posted in the Practice reports thread could be a model for Patrick. http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/sports/news/20111208p2g00m0sp089000c.html Yuzuru already understands how to talk to the media,

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Yes, the friendly media from his own country about their rising new star and heir to a national hero, as opposed to a purposely delayed and misleadingly presented write-up by a foreign news agency always looking for some buzz generating controversies. Nice picks for comparison, before the credibility is even verified.

I think skaters like him and Evan are having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that skating just isn't as lucrative (or popular) now as it was in the 90s. They want this special treatment that champions got in the past and it's simply not possible; the federations are not as well-funded now.

A friend of mine cited Patrick's dissatisfaction with his popularity being less than that of Stojko or Browning. This has nothing to do with satisfaction with federation (I think Skate Canada treats him quite well), but with fans in general, which was why I suggested he meet up with the Chan Gang. THEY LOVE HIM! They want to throw women's underwear on the ice for him.

Back to my friend's response, and to borrow from Skatefiguring's logic, one would have to say that Patrick is comparing apples to oranges in a sense. When Kurt was at the height of his popularity, skating was one of the most popular sports in North America. At the moment, skating is struggling to be popular in North America. Patrice himself forgets this. Also, he forgets that Kurt holds four world titles. He only has one at the moment.