Patrick Chan feeling unappreciated in Canada

Bluebonnet · Dec 8, 2011

brightphoton said:
Oh, I'm being horrible and eye-popping?

Ai Dongmei: runner, sold her medals, sells clothes on the street
Zhao Yonghua: crippled from skiing
Zhang Shangwu: world champion gymnast, performs tricks on the street
Zou Chunlan: weight lifting lady who won a bunch of medals and now cleans backs at a bathhouse for 10 cents per session because she's illiterate

I hear you. You're going say I’m being terrible, and I’m only highlighting the famous cases that the Chinese media has chosen to focus on. It's not all like that.

"Of some 300,000 retired athletes, 80 percent were battling injury, poverty and unemployment, the China Sports Dailynewspaper said."
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/agency/2011-07-16/content_3216692.html

Have you researched athletes' lives, or national heros, veterans' lives for that matter, after the glory in US or other western countries? It might be equally horrible.

brightphoton · Dec 8, 2011

Yeah, our athletes are in equally horrible conditions. I don't remember her name, but one of our athletes got "too fat to skate" and now has to study chemical engineering at Stanford. Did you hear of another one who also retired from skating and now has to be an orthopedic dentist? Sigh. This pair of sisters, one who won the Olympics and the other not so talented one both quit, and now have to attend some school called Harvard or Yale? Who's ever heard of that one? One really famous skater quit after 10 years in the sport, then got some masters degree at Colorado. What a sad, sad life.

The situations are totally comparable, obviously Patrick is not an idiot. China's situation is way better.

Edit: oh, sorry Rachael. I don't like poking fun at your weight, but people have been talking about it a lot, and I was being tongue in cheek. I still love you! <3

Tonichelle · Dec 8, 2011

Maybe the reason Kurt got more recognition early on had nothing to do with skin color, family origin, or $$... but had everything to do with teh fact that he portrayed a boy next door type image... he certainly had his ego moments (his book for one has some interesting comments that came to bite him in the butt big time) and still does, but for the most part he didn't air his dirty laundry with the federation or Tom Collins in the media.

Elvis and Kurt skated in the "Golden Era" of skating in N. America. Kurt rode in and took up where Orser left off, and then Elvis came in and filled Browning's void. There was a brief period where Elvis was on the downside of his career and Buttle hadn't made the upswing yet so I think it's a rebuilding of popularity. Ice Dance is where it's at for both Skate Canada and the USFSA, that's where the medals are consistently coming in.

Most North American skaters are "more popular" elsewhere - like Japan and Korea where folks can't seem to get enough of the sport. It has nothing to do with race or heritage, it's just that right now Asia is having their "Golden Era" so it's just common sense to think he'd be bigger over there. Just like a lot of non Canadian and Americans were popular over here in the 90s.

As for the media games, I'd say poor poor Patrick, but he's been in this game long enough to know not to play into it. I think he likes stirring the pot (like Weir). It's unbecoming IMO but I lost that argument four years ago when it was all about how refreshing Weir's comments were.

Violet Bliss · Dec 8, 2011

blue dog said:
A friend of mine cited Patrick's dissatisfaction with his popularity being less than that of Stojko or Browning. This has nothing to do with satisfaction with federation (I think Skate Canada treats him quite well), but with fans in general, which was why I suggested he meet up with the Chan Gang. THEY LOVE HIM! They want to throw women's underwear on the ice for him.

Back to my friend's response, and to borrow from Skatefiguring's logic, one would have to say that Patrick is comparing apples to oranges in a sense. When Kurt was at the height of his popularity, skating was one of the most popular sports in North America. At the moment, skating is struggling to be popular in North America. Patrice himself forgets this. Also, he forgets that Kurt holds four world titles. He only has one at the moment.

I don't know about your friend, but in my page 1 post I have exposed the distortion in the Globe & Mail's re-report of the original report with relevent parts bolded:

SkateFiguring said:
SkateFiguring said:

You retold the report in your words and then questioned Chan's character based on your own translation. The original article did not quote Chan comparing himself to Stojko and Browning or expressing his dissatisfation in such comparison. It is the writer who compared the popularity of figure skating between Browning/Stojko era and today.

Click to expand...

skatinginbc said:

The reporter said, "He was disappointed that he has not received the attention that Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning did in the 1980s and 1990s."
I said, "He is not as appreciated and recognized in Canada as Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning."
Anything wrong with my paraphrase?

Click to expand...

I see where the problem is now. You were paraphrasing the Globe & Mail report which paraphrased the original article which says

Whereas Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning were treated as rockstars and showered with plaudits during the 1980s and 90s -- when Canadian men glided to eight world titles in 11 years -- the skating landscape for Chan in 2011 is very different.

Click to expand...

which are the reporter's words, not Chan's. This is typical of telephone/gossip game where one biased listening/reading leads to another until the eventual recognized "fact" is completely different from the real fact.

While I'm at it, here again is from the original report:

"I do (wish I could have represented both China and Canada when I compete). That would be the ideal situation... in a perfect world."

The "(wish I could have represented both China and Canada when I compete)" is obviously part of the question that Patrick was responding to. We don't know what the complete question was and the context in which it was posed.

Becki · Dec 8, 2011

Spun Silver said:
The interview with an even younger skater, Yuzuru Hanyu, that was also posted in the Practice reports thread could be a model for Patrick. http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/sports/news/20111208p2g00m0sp089000c.html Yuzuru already understands how to talk to the media, balancing a desire to win with a sense of where he still needs to improve as well as his position in his country. His one expression of self-regard (the "I got here on my own" part) is surrounded by exemplary expressions of respect, which leads me to think it may have come out a little wrong in translation.

On competing for their home countries:

Yuzuru: "... the people in the disaster areas have been making a big effort of their own too so obviously it would be great if I could get a result that would provide them with courage."

Patrick: "Sometimes I feel we are not appreciated for how much work we put in. If my parents hadn't emigrated from China and say I had skated for China, things would have been very different."

On their own skating and competing at high levels:

Patrick: "[The other skaters are] doing the same thing, just maybe in a different order. So I hope I can be somewhat of a throwback skater in the fact that I can bring excitement back. I can be like the black sheep of the herd, be different and be unique and be someone people will remember out of the 50 skaters at the world championships.... I've got absolutely nothing to prove to anyone," said Chan, who holds the records for the highest ever scores in both the short (93.02 points) and free (187.96) programs. "I skate just to satisfy my own desire and not care about other people's desire for me to do well. I barely have any interest any more in how well I do in competitions."

Yuzuru: "It wasn't because of the disaster that I qualified for the Grand Prix final, I got here on my own merit... It hasn't really sunk in that I am at the GP final. It just feels like just another overseas event. I didn't even think I would get this far and I am sure the atmosphere will be something else. Hopefully I can keep on improving and moving in the direction... I am in the final and naturally have a strong desire to win... I have really wanted to perform the quad in an event for so long and obviously it would be better if I could achieve that, but there are also other parts of my performance that I need to work to do well and put together a solid program."

On performing for the audience:

Patrick: "I want to skate well but my main concern is to satisfy myself and make myself enjoy what I do on the ice [emphasis added] and hopefully the audience can feel the same thing. If they feel they have understood the program and have been really been touched, then I feel much more accomplished than if I won a medal."

Yuzuru: "I want to deliver a performance that the spectators will feel was worth coming to see."

I'll say it again - what Patrick does on ice is all I really care about, but my literary side can't help taking an interest in character revealing itself through speech. And it's startling to hear him talk about how he'll stand out in the boring crowd of COP skaters when he's about to go up against Takahashi, Hanyu, and Abbott. If those are cookie-cutter skaters, I'll gladly take the cookies!

Actually, if you look back at the article, you'll realize Takahashi said half of those things, not Yuzuru

Spun Silver · Dec 8, 2011

Becki said:
Actually, if you look back at the article, you'll realize Takahashi said half of those things, not Yuzuru

Oh my gosh, you're absolutely right! How careless of me. I will go back and do something about that post. Thanks for pointing this out!!!

(And there I was thinking that Yuzuru was remarkably like Daisuke in his humility.)

DriedgerC2 · Dec 8, 2011

Chan's interview

I don't get why everything that comes out of Chan's mouth get dissected and examined piece by piece. I didn't find anything offensive in that interview. What he said was the truth. Please give the kid a break.

skatinginbc · Dec 8, 2011

Nadine said:
Having spoken to a member of his extended family, I believe it's all about finances...My sense is that he feels guilty about the financial sacrifices his parents have made for his skating career.

If it is about money, then he should not think this way: "I skate just to satisfy my own desire and not care about other people's desire for me to do well. I barely have any interest any more in how well I do in competitions." Instead, he needs to think about earning more medals and how to entertain the audience if he desires to ease the financial burden of his family.

Buttercup · Dec 8, 2011

Buttercup said:
I expect to see some sort of statement from Patrick soon; his comments are attracting the wrong sort of attention, and this time they're not about some foreign skater who might be viewed as a more acceptable target (e.g. Joubert, Plushenko); by making what can be perceived as negative, ungracious comments about his own country, he's gone too far. He will have to do some damage control, or he will likely face some unpleasant consequences.

Yup - here's the damage control, with the help of PJ Kwong.

Good answers, but I'll admit I find it hard to believe that he had no idea that there were human rights violations in China.

Bluebonnet · Dec 8, 2011

SkateFiguring said:
While I'm at it, here again is from the original report:

"I do (wish I could have represented both China and Canada when I compete). That would be the ideal situation... in a perfect world."

Click to expand...

The "(wish I could have represented both China and Canada when I compete)" is obviously part of the question that Patrick was responding to. We don't know what the complete question was and the context in which it was posed.

Yes, so obvious!!!:yes: This was where the bomb shell was in the reporter's intention. Unfortunately for this reporter, it came only with the word, "I do." Clearly Patrick was asked that way. What could have been the better way to answer it? To say, "No, I don't want to represent my heritage country. I'm a Canadian, and I only want to represent Canada"? Will that statement hurt his Chinese fans?

skatinginbc · Dec 8, 2011

Chan: "I had no idea until you said it right now that there are accusations of human rights violations against China.http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskat...-chan-explains-his-comments-about-canada.html
What a sheltered life he has been living in!

Bluebonnet · Dec 8, 2011

skatinginbc said:
Chan: "I had no idea until you said it right now that there are accusations of human rights violations against China.http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskat...-chan-explains-his-comments-about-canada.html
What a sheltered life he has been living in!

As sheltered as most figure skaters.

I'm sure Chan was saying the truth when he said he didn't know about it.

Thanks, Buttercup for the PJ article! That explained.

jettasian · Dec 8, 2011

skatinginbc said:
I'm just curious: Did Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir, who won the Olympic gold on home ice, or Joannie Rochette, who won the Olympic bronze, receive more support and attention from the "Canadians"? Did the parents of Virtue, Moir, and Rochette sacrifice less because they are more Canadian than immigrant families are?

Elvis Stojko is a three-time World champion, two-time Olympic silver medalist, and seven-time Canadian champion. Kurt Browning is a four-time World Champion and four-time Canadian national champion. How many World championship has Chan won? Sometimes instant fame does happen, but more often it is earned through a series of great achievement.

First, I don't think what Chan said has ANYTHING to do with V/M or JR. He didn't compare them. He only talked about what he has gone through. It doesn't matter if V/M or JR had more support or not, Chan HIMSELF feels like he doesn't have many. So I'm not sure why you are bringing the other skaters up?

As ofr ES and KB, I don't think winning many titles will make any difference. Figure Skating is just not like it used to be. And it's true that most Canadians only care about Hockey but nothing else. I bet Chan's more popular in Asia (China/Korea/Japan) than in Canada.

mmcdermott · Dec 8, 2011

Tonichelle said:
Elvis and Kurt skated in the "Golden Era" of skating in N. America. Kurt rode in and took up where Orser left off, and then Elvis came in and filled Browning's void. There was a brief period where Elvis was on the downside of his career and Buttle hadn't made the upswing yet so I think it's a rebuilding of popularity. Ice Dance is where it's at for both Skate Canada and the USFSA, that's where the medals are consistently coming in.

Yes, and during that time there were two Olympic Games in close succession, which meant the athletes were in the public eye longer than the would have been otherwise. Less downtime in between when people forget about them. And that was after Calgary which also got more attention than usual since it was in Canada.

No Olympic athletes get much support or attention between Games. Patrick got a ton of attention going into Vancouver, and I'm sure he will again in a year or two when they start hyping our medal hopefuls for 2014. The average person probably just remembers how he was so hyped before 2010 and then didn't win a medal.

He is lucky that he has the Chinese community in Toronto behind him. Most athletes don't even have that.

Someone above mentioned something about Virtue/Moir and Joannie ever referring to lack of support from the federation. I haven't seen anything from them, but it frequently comes up with athletes in other Olympic sports. Most recently I remember seeing something with Jon Montgomery (OGM in skeleton), talking about how the Canadian bobsleigh and skeleton teams don't have a sponsor now.

It seems, that most canadians agree that the athletes don't receive enough funding (see poll at the bottom of this article)

Becki · Dec 8, 2011

Bluebonnet said:
As sheltered as most figure skaters. I'm sure Chan was saying the truth when he said he didn't know about it.

Thanks, Buttercup for the PJ article! That explained.

WOW...I hope he isn't real

jettasian · Dec 8, 2011

let`s talk said:
Oh, god. Again he's whining all around. That is just a comedy.

If not, what'd Chan bashers gonna bash? Right?

jettasian · Dec 8, 2011

Buttercup said:
The comments on the G&M article are overwhelmingly negative. Some of them are just stupid and ignorant, but not all of them, and it's clear that Patrick has not done himself any good with this interview.

He doesn't have to. At least he's honest and says what's in his mind. It's better than some fake comments to pretend that everything is happy and rosey, so what, to gain a few more fans?

skatinginbc · Dec 8, 2011

jettasian said:
So I'm not sure why you are bringing the other skaters up?

I'm just curious, as I said. And I don't know the answer for certain. If the answer is yes to both, then race might have played a role here. If the answer is No (which I expect to be the case), I wonder if they feel "less Canadian" because public support for figure skating is less than what they wish for.

Violet Bliss · Dec 8, 2011

Bluebonnet said:
Yes, so obvious!!!:yes: This was where the bomb shell was in the reporter's intention. Unfortunately for this reporter, it came only with the word, "I do." Clearly Patrick was asked that way. What could have been the better way to answer it? To say, "No, I don't want to represent my heritage country. I'm a Canadian, and I only want to represent Canada"? Will that statement hurt his Chinese fans?

A reporter knows how to draw the answers they want, which they then edit to fit their theme aka agenda. E.g. I could ask:

"Patrick, you are the first Men's World Champion in figure skating of Chinese descent. You have many fans here in China and they love you. Some of them even wish you could represent China. We know it's not possible to compete for two countries but don't you wish you could represent both China and Canada when you compete?"

Guess what Patrick would say to that? Especially in China.

As for charges of human rights violations in China, not only is a competitive skater expectedly devoted to his training with little time for world affairs, young people today are not as indoctrinated with such political ideas as older people. Their knowledge about and experiences with China are completely different from those of their elder generation. They have a very different perspective.

Tonichelle · Dec 8, 2011

jettasian said:
He doesn't have to. At least he's honest and says what's in his mind. It's better than some fake comments to pretend that everything is happy and rosey, so what, to gain a few more fans?

well if you're going to complain that you don't have a lot of support, then, well, yeah.

Patrick Chan feeling unappreciated in Canada

Bluebonnet

brightphoton

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Violet Bliss

Becki

Spun Silver

DriedgerC2

skatinginbc

Buttercup

Bluebonnet

skatinginbc

Bluebonnet

jettasian

Match Penalty

mmcdermott

Becki

jettasian

Match Penalty

jettasian

Match Penalty

skatinginbc

Violet Bliss

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

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