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Thread: Senior Ice Dance SD at 2:00 EST

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoates View Post
    Buttercup, it's not hard to fathom that fans would prefer one team or another over D/W. I have never advocated otherwise. In fact I do like V/M. However it is somewhat exasperating to know that V/M fans in particular, but also fans of other teams, routinely make largely predictable arguments based on longstanding biases rather than on the actual performance on the day. That sort of thinking assumes that there is some consistent level of quality that V/M possess that is so significantly higher than D/W that it's almost not worth comparing them or even holding a competition in the first place. Which is ironic given how often fans complain about judges pre-judging events based on common wisdom while they are actually guilty of doing the very same thing with regard to their favorites. It's one thing to like or prefer particular skater or team, but to dismiss their competition out of hand consistently or to refuse to look at what they are doing with fresh eyes is rather unfair IMO. Lord knows, I have had to acknowledge occasions when D/W have been inferior to other teams. It is frustrating and at times confusing. I get that. The 2007-2008 season was painful b/c D/W were in a dog fight with P/B and F/S most of the season. But, I understood that at the time both teams were better compulsory dancers and had slightly better constructed ODs than D/W.
    I really appreciate this post! You've detailed very well the extremist position of many V/M fans--simply, that V/M are just so inherently better than any other ice dance team ever possibly could be, that, as you say, "it's almost not worth . . . even holding a competition in the first place." V/M certainly are an outstanding team, probably one of the best ever, and I'm becoming more of a fan of them this season than ever before. However, to suggest they should win every competition simply because they've shown up denies the fact that this is indeed a sport, and as such, anything can happen on any specific day. Including V/M falling and rightfully being scored behind D/W due to actual technical errors.

    This thread has been so informative that I probably can't add much to it . . . However, just a couple of my own impressions.

    I personally think D/W's short dance is very good and improving with each competition. To me, they have a raw energy and excitement to their dance that's quite unique. I especially like the second half of the program to the J.Lo song, it's just very explosive. And I'm impressed by the super difficulty they achieve in the dance, as outlined in Doris's posts.

    I also really like V/M's short dance. In fact, this SD and last year's FD (to the same music) are my favorite programs from them ever. I thought they had the best hip action of the top teams. To me, their interpretation of this dance is very confident, and very "big", if you will. They really fill out the space so impressively when they're on the ice. However, I did notice that the second rhumba sequence was not skated with the same deep knees that I'd seen from them at TEB, so even I could see some of the difference in technical quality as detailed by Doris.

    I was not hugely impressed with P/B. I love the concept, choreography, and music of this Brazilian SD--so different and fun (plus the costumes are exquisite). But to me, their actual execution of the dance hasn't lived up to its potential. As Tanith pointed out on Universal Sports, there are just a lot of little moments when their lines or positions or transitions aren't quite up to par; a lot of moments when I find myself thinking, "That could have been done better" or "They looked slightly off there." I don't agree with some posters who seem to feel P/B should be much closer to the top 2 teams than they are. If anything, I think they were closer last year, and feel their marks this year have been a bit generous. Still, I do really like this dance, and hope they can perform it better at Europeans and Worlds.

    I thought Weaver/Poje looked pretty good. However I'm not a big fan of their SD. It seems sort of typical; not terribly inventive. The music is quite familiar, and they don't really do anything different with it. (Certainly I found Daisuke's interpretation last year much more fun and exciting.) Overall the program felt a little long to me. Also the costumes/makeup are tawdry and over the top.

    I agree with jcoates and Doris that the Shibs have opted for a very classic Latin ballroom feel to their dance. That was my thought exactly as I watched it. And although it's perfectly fine conceptually, I have to agree with other posters that it's not terribly exciting. However, in terms of execution, I thought they looked really sharp--fast and accurate in their movement. Was glad to see they at least placed above the oft-overscored Bobrova/Soloviev.

    Really looking forward to the FD tonight--can't wait!!

  2. #137
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Oh ,doris..I wish there was an "I survived the B&B era" t-shirt..

    I'm in complete agreement as to the eras that were difficult to survive. I'm amazed I'm here to tell the tale ..but the greater wonder is that my TV survived.... ( It was a near thing. )

    V/M did not have a good SD competition. Face it , fellow V/M fans. So you prefer their Latin interpretation to D/W's ?
    Me , too . But V/M did not deliver. We can't know what might have happened without Scott's fall.

    OTOh , did D/W skate their program really, really well ? Oh, yeah . ... Basta !

    Now I'm getting ready for the crunch. I think D/W's program is absolutely perfect for them. I don't feel the same about Funny Face for V/M . I've had a hard time warming to it all season. Could they still knock it out of the park with their skating ? You know they could.

    Whoever wins , will that be finito for the other couple ? In no way.

  3. #138
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    ITA, colleen!

    During the B&B era, I learned that tossing sock balls at the TV was the safest way of punishing it for showing me B&B. Otherwise, I'm sure the TV would not have survived.

  4. #139
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    who were B&B again? I'm having a lot of fun envisioning Doris chucking socks across aroom towards a TV screen...

  5. #140
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    Bestemianova and Bukin.

    Two of their more infuriating dances below:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcIfsJaLksw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZlvBzqg6xo

  6. #141
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    More B&B

    Their program with Natalia as the little prince & Andrei as Rasputin.

    (At the end, I wanted to push him under the ice on the river, as did the conspirators)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OuAY...01A1E541CDA8E0

    I was particularly unfond of their 1984 Olympic Russian folk FD, where as the music got faster, they only hit a beat now and them by random chance, while repeating the same stunts a couple times each.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuWeBG6h8ek

    There was also an Homage to Greenpeace exhibition that isn't on youtube right now (it's subtitle was something about ocean & bird). You could not upload it to youtube, back in the preGoogle days, because the owners of youtube had the word "Greenpeace" on their censor list as representing a terrorist organization. Since other videos have the word "Greenpeace" in the title, under Google ownership, that is no longer the case, but the B&B exhibition wasn't where I can find it quickly.

    There's some black socks for you, TV!
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-11-2011 at 04:49 PM.

  7. #142
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I loved Scott Hamilton's cheeky comment about winning with her hands tied behind her back in jcoates' first link...

  8. #143
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    I saw them skate live at World Pros a couple of times. We (the crowd, at least in my section) never got them. They always seemed so over the top or abstract that it was hard to take them seriously. Their pro routines also were very far from actual dancing IMO and more theatre or performance art. Still I acknowledge there are those who loved them. Also, I've said before, they (particularly Natalia) appear to have been very personally popular with their competitors (Jayne and Chris, Tracy Wilson, Judy Blumberg) so that says something abou their personal character apart from their skating.

  9. #144
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Apparently, they endeared themselves to the citizens of the small town near Calgary where they trained prior to the 1988 Olympics.

    I have every reason to believe that they are very nice people. They just skated in a strange way to strange stuff, IMO, especially as pros, and as amateurs I wanted to buy them a metronome (or just someone shouting at the boards, like Lawrence Welk, "And a vun and a two and a three)

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Apparently, they endeared themselves to the citizens of the small town near Calgary where they trained prior to the 1988 Olympics.

    I have every reason to believe that they are very nice people. They just skated in a strange way to strange stuff, IMO, especially as pros, and as amateurs I wanted to buy them a metronome (or just someone shouting at the boards, like Lawrence Welk, "And a vun and a two and a three)
    Doris, can't thank you enough for all your insightful and informative posts. And this B&B/Lawrence Welk observation made me laugh so hard, I had tears streaming down my cheeks.

  11. #146
    Custom Title CassAgain's Avatar
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    I more I watch D/W's short dance, the more I like it. Their unison is fantastic, the music and the program flow from cut to cut smoothly, and their styling, particularly hers, is spot on. Using the Spanish version of the JLo song was really smart, and they do a good job of conveying a dance club feel. I don't like the current end position, but that seems to be a work in progress. I also think she could do some kind of Latin arm reference when she is up in the lift that would elevate the performance--I think the crowd would go a little nuts and raise the energy level even more there at the end.

  12. #147
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I like it too, and I think you're right that the fiddling with the pony tail while in the lift should be replaced with something else. The ponytail tossing trick is the dance version of what the men are doing with suspenders this year. All the girls have ponytails or hair extension made into pony tails, and they are all fiddling with them. I never knew that Latin American girls did that more than any other teenager.

    It looks to me like they have been buffing up the FD between GPF and CoR and had left the SD pretty much alone, other than to get that tricky edge in the rhumba.

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