GPF Men SP! :) | Page 8 | Golden Skate

GPF Men SP! :)

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Nice recovery by Chan. He seem's much better at regaining his composure after a mistake than he was a couple of years ago. And really, no one has his speed and edge quality. That footwork pass going end to end on one foot? Amazing.

I was also SO impressed with Jeremy Abbott. The last time I watched him skate was a couple of seasons back, and he put me to sleep. He looks like a completely different person on the ice now. He was engaging, musical and entertaining. Wow!
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Jeremy actually seems to enjoy skating to the peppy music of his SP this year. Since he does well to that, perhaps he should skate to cheery music in the future?
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
It seems like Chan MUST skate clean, or else, there's always some people saying he shouldn't deserve the mark blah blah blah. It's unfortunate that his 4+3 hit the board...or else...I think he'd have given higher mark, 90?

Over 90. He lost almost 4 points for the bang and fall, without which he would be scored at around 90. Moreover, he would almost certainly have received generous GOE for the quad combo otherwise as it was huge and gorgeous, except the fall took out the flow after the landing. With just a little bit of PCS boost without the fall, he might have broken his own SP record. OTOH, he probably wouldn't even need any additional PCS because without the quad combo incident, he likely would not have put his hand down for the 3A.

Of course, to some people it's just a messy program.
 
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ILoveFigures

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Over 90. He lost almost 4 points for the bang and fall, without which he would be scored at around 90. Moreover, he would almost certainly have received generous GOE for the quad combo otherwise as it was huge and gorgeous, except the fall took out the flow after the landing. With just a little bit of PCS boost without the fall, he might have broken his own SP record. OTOH, he probably wouldn't even need any additional PCS because without the quad combo incident, he likely would not have put his hand down for the 3A.

Of course, to some people it's just a messy program.

Take out the fall and some posters here would still call it a messy skate. :laugh:
 

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Patrick is the best of a weak field. He is an excellent skater, and he's extremely strong in footwork and speed/smoothness, which are very highly (over?) rated in the current system. He deserves his wins under the current rubric, whether everyone likes it or not.

However, he will never be considered one of the best of all times because he just falls way too much. No skating legend who is raved about so much has ever hit the ice as much as he does. I remember those in the past falling maybe once in a while, or putting a foot down in a triple occasionally. Patrick will do both in a short program several times a year. Let's hope next year he works on his consistency a little.
 

skateflower

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
It seems like Chan MUST skate clean, or else, there's always some people saying he shouldn't deserve the mark blah blah blah. It's unfortunate that his 4+3 hit the board...or else...I think he'd have given higher mark, 90?

Skating clean should be the goal of every skater. Apparently Chan's diehards think we're just asking too much from this boy. It appears the hallmark of Chan-COP era is to justify wins with mutiple falls.
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Okay, one thing I think Chan missed was his spins on this short program. The first spin and the last spin were not that good, I could see they traveled a bit.
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Skating clean should be the goal of every skater. Apparently Chan's diehards think we're just asking too much from this boy. It appears the hallmark of Chan-COP era is to justify wins with mutiple falls.

Yes, skating clean should be the goal for every skater. Was everyone clean? And I don't think that's the ONLY factor to justify the marks. I think it's more like some people are watching Chan skate for "how many falls and mistakes" he makes instead of how he skates.
 

ivy

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Often when I see a skater fall it seems to come from hesitancy, lack of confidence, or lack of proper technique. Usually when Patrick falls it seems to be from pushing too far - jumping too big, trying for too deep an edge, going too fast. It's more forgivable to me. And Patrick has gotten really good at falling, and can get right back into the program. Plus he's learned that he won't be punished too much in the scores so why not push to the edge and risk a fall.

I do think it's time for him to focus on skating within his considerable abilities and eliminate the fall story line by Sochi.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Skating clean should be the goal of every skater. Apparently Chan's diehards think we're just asking too much from this boy. It appears the hallmark of Chan-COP era is to justify wins with mutiple falls.

So how clean is the rest of the field? Have most of the GP winners been clean? Why is Chan the only one you are making such demand from? Why do you choose to ignore the reasons he won the SP last night and focus on the fall caused by his going beyond? How many actual messy wins has Chan had compared to his wins without any fall or even near perfection that no one has achieved?

No one in this world has no faults and negatives you can find and focus on if that's you perogative. But how do you choose your target and why is Chan the jack pot winner as your choice?

Yes, jettasian, I noticed his last spin was subpar for him. But some people have eyes only for falls.

eta. Yes Ivy, that is what I meant by "going beyond", pun intended but seriously that is what Patrick always does.
 
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gold12345

Medalist
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
People are whining about Judge #5's marks for Chan, but are overlooking Judge #1 who gave him 9.75 on SS and 9.5 on everything else. Not to mention the fact that the same judge gave him +3 GOE on four elements and only a -1 for the boards fiasco. The point is that, yes, some judges scores are often questionable, but it works both ways.

:disapp: I was shaking my head over Judge #1 as well. Judge #1 is almost certainly the Canadian judge. Canada obviously isn't the only country whose judge does this for the home skaters. I will never understand it. Even though the judges are anonymous to the public, why would you want to appear that biased in the eyes of the ISU, or even yourself? If you have pride in your work and your ability to judge, why would you ever want to come across as incapable of leaving biased opinions towards home skaters out of your judging? You can still score Chan in first place without going overboard.
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Because he's notorous for mutiple falls.

I believe his SC LP had only 2. And last night, 1, which I'd call that unfortunate...cause of the board. But I know that his falls are accumulative.

Even if he's clean, I'm sure some will find other things to complain.
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
:disapp: I was shaking my head over Judge #1 as well. Judge #1 is almost certainly the Canadian judge. Canada obviously isn't the only country whose judge does this for the home skaters. I will never understand it. Even though the judges are anonymous to the public, why would you want to appear that biased in the eyes of the ISU, or even yourself? If you have pride in your work and your ability to judge, why would you ever want to come across as incapable of leaving biased opinions towards home skaters out of your judging? You can still score Chan in first place without going overboard.

If you like to guess Judge #1 must be Canadian and has a motive. Would you like to guess where's Judge #5 from, and what's his/her motive to give Chan 7.5?
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
:disapp: I was shaking my head over Judge #1 as well. Judge #1 is almost certainly the Canadian judge. Canada obviously isn't the only country whose judge does this for the home skaters. I will never understand it. Even though the judges are anonymous to the public, why would you want to appear that biased in the eyes of the ISU, or even yourself? If you have pride in your work and your ability to judge, why would you ever want to come across as incapable of leaving biased opinions towards home skaters out of your judging? You can still score Chan in first place without going overboard.

Not trying to get some people overly excited, Judge #1 on the protocol for Chan could have well been the Chinese judge for all we know. ;)
 

Becki

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Honestly, Patrick deserved his score. He might not be the strongest in the technical aspect (I honestly think Yuzuru if he lands the quad, and Javier are stronger), but his PC score saves him (he had the highest I believe). So if everyone else is flawless in the LP, Patrick will still win the crown.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Honestly, Patrick deserved his score. He might not be the strongest in the technical aspect (I honestly think Yuzuru if he lands the quad, and Javier are stronger), but his PC score saves him (he had the highest I believe). So if everyone else is flawless in the LP, Patrick will still win the crown.

If everyone is flawless, LOL! More like if Patrick has 5 or 6 falls and everyone is flawless he will still "win" the crown. Mens events arent worth watching anymore, they are nothing but Chan coronations until he retires. If I were him I wouldnt even show up, I would send an envelope and request my gold medal back. :laugh:
 

Becki

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
If everyone is flawless, LOL! More like if Patrick has 5 or 6 falls and everyone is flawless he will still "win" the crown. Mens events arent worth watching anymore, they are nothing but Chan coronations until he retires. If I were him I wouldnt even show up, I would send an envelope and request my gold medal back. :laugh:

I think the Mens event is the most exciting, more so than Ladies. I have to watch Patrick's performance in the LP, but he deserved to win the SP this time :p However, I find it super annoying when Patrick complains about his "disappointing 5th place finish" in the 2010 Olympics =_= I think he was overscored in the LP....I would place him below Johnny. If Oda didn't mess up, then I would place Patrick 8th or 9th. Patrick overestimates himself, and I just find that kind of annoying...
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I guess you find reruns of Coronation Street exciting then. I have a couple of friends in Quebec City who were going to see the Grand Prix final but who dont follow as much skating as me. I wasnt able to make it but copied the entire schedule for them but advised them to use the senior mens short and long programs at 9:15 pm Saturday and 5 pm Sunday as the time to get dinner and lunch as they were the most worth missing. They followed my advice last night, and much to their benefit as it turned out. I spoke to them on the phone late last night and they very much enjoyed the rest of the competition and the juniors last night, so happily that was not ruined for them by seeing the senior mens "competition".
 
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Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I see no point in second guessing judges and their nationalities, let alone being so convinced of them. From the protocol, judge #1 is the most generous to Patrick but almost every competitor has one generous judge. We don't know if it's all the same judge with a generous nature or different judges have different tastes and different favorite styles. In Patrick's case, while judge #5 is stingy with his/her PCS, his/her TES for Patrick is almost as generous as judge #1, and identical as judge #9. Judge #2 may arguably be the harshest on Patrick, giving out the substantially lower GOE than any other judge and the second lowest PCS. But we don't know whether or not the same judge is the Scrooge for every skater.

The fact is there are nine judges and the highest and lowest marks are discarded, so the final official total score is close to a consesus of sorts. To actually speculate and extrapolate fairly, if it's possible, should involve more comprehensive comparison between judges for a skater as well as against all competitors' scoring pattern. Even then, it's darn impossible with the blind and scrambled order of judges. Personally, I think the final Total Scores as formulated are quite representative of the overall evaluations by the judges and indicative of the placements according to the qualities of performances.
 
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