GPF Men FP, Sat. 12/10 at 4:55 pm EST

demarinis5 said:

You know how it is different strokes for different folks.

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Yes. Me, I prefer skaters to stroke the ice rather than their bodies.

demarinis5 said:

You know how it is different strokes for different folks.

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:thumbsup: sometimes breaks are nice.

Favorite performance for me was Yuzuru Hanyu! Loved everything about it....from the music to his cute reaction at the end

Tonichelle said:

:thumbsup: sometimes breaks are nice.

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I do not object that if it goes with the music. But not too many or it'll be like a performance on the floor. Chan's program has a break too.

SkateFiguring said:

Don't make such a challenge. You'll offend many who appreciate choregraphies with multiple built in double purposed halts, so the skaters can take some breaths and gain PE, CH, and IN points by emoting with facial expressions, thrusting their hips, and caressing themselves seductively.

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I disliked Amodio's programs so much.

Ironically, among this season's Chan LP performances(4) I most like his TEB performance in sick condition.
There is a fragile feel within the performance. (In addition, the beautiful blade sounds.)

skatinginbc said:

Wrong. Even a 10-year-old can tell that Chan fell but Dai did not. Chan also had two messy jumps whereas Dai only had one. It is objective and straightforward. Of course, I'm not arguing it should be the only measuring stick. It is a measuring stick nonetheless.

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So why is this the only measuring stick that you have been referring to so far? If my memory is correct, you are a Japanese living in Canada, aren't you? Could it be that you are a little upset that Takahashi didn't win, therefore, your emotions have clouded your logic and judgement?

In the same vein, do you feel the "casual fans" that you and Mathman referred to in this thread can tell:

1) Difference between a Quad and a Triple?

2) Which skater has more Tripe-Triple combos?

3) Which skater has better spins/footwork?

4) Which skater has more speed?

5) Which skaters had more jumps in total?

I eagerly await how you and Mathman answer to these questions as the self-claimed representatives of "casual fans".

wallylutz said:

So why is this the only measuring stick that you have been referring to so far? If my memory is correct, you are a Japanese living in Canada, aren't you? Could it be that you are a little upset that Takahashi didn't win, therefore, your emotions have clouded your logic and judgement?

In the same vein, do you feel the "casual fans" that you and Mathman referred to in this thread can tell:

1) Difference between a Quad and a Triple?

2) Which skater has more Tripe-Triple combos?

3) Which skater has better spins/footwork?

4) Which skater has more speed?

5) Which skaters had more jumps in total?

I eagerly await how you and Mathman answer to these questions as the self-claimed representatives of "casual fans".

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I hope these casual fans don't cheat by looking up the Protocol!

It's getting really late here in Quebec and I actually do need to wake up tomorrow morning. Someone just PM me and asked me about the Junior Men competition today so it reminded me that many of you didn't see it and probably never would bother, including the so called people's representatives because there is no "Rock Star" there that would make any of you upset: "the casual fans whose anger with CoP will kill the sport eventually". I got a newsflash for you to roll over 3 times and be super upset about. The winner of the junior men's event has no Triple Axel or Quad. Now, listen carefully, the winner didn't attempt either a 3A or any Quads but the 5 other junior men all did, including the eventual 2nd place finisher who landed a clean Quad Toe and Triple Axel, along with 7 other Triples. Now, let me tell you the name of the winner: Jason Brown from the United States. Now, I have to ask, all the people who claimed CoP is killing the sport, would you now petition the ISU to have Jason Brown's Gold medal revoked? Because you know, under the definition of "casual fans" that I read here, this too would be scandalous and no, the 2nd place guy didn't fall.

Now, if you wouldn't protest about Jason Brown's Gold medal, who won with no Triple Axel or Quad and the 2nd place guy didn't fall and had clean Quad and Triple Axel, I eagerly await for our casual fans to suddenly become highly informed and educated about figure skating in all its complexity...

This was a phenomenal competition and it was clear how hard all 6 of these men were pushing themselves and how much the system demands of them. The SPEED and INTRICACY which all of the skaters are striving for is almost ridiculous. It's certainly impressive to see, although at times the focus on performance and musical nuance and meaningful movement seems to be lost in the quest for "more, More, MORE!!!" We need to ask ourselves exactly how much is a good thing and if too much of one is overwhelming another aspect of the whole. I still don't believe the 5 program components are being used as accurately as they should be.

For me, Hanyu deserved to win the competition. His Long Program here looked slightly more rushed then in the past, but he still skated beautifully (so much HEART) and this is technically the strongest he has ever been. Only that one mistake on the least important jump element. Since the judges are making him wait his turn, I sure hope he continues to be as interesting and alive in the future as he has been this season.

I would have put Patrick 2nd overall, although 3rd in the LP. I do agree this is the best he has skated his LP all season and, yes, his basic movement across the ice is staggering. However, I still question the quality of his interpretation and the effectiveness of his choreography, and there were of course 3 significant mistakes technically. He is definitely a miraculous skater in some regards, but to make all of the mistakes he did throughout the competition and not be as much of an artistic prodigy as he is technically, and still finish more than 10 points ahead of the rest of the field...ehhh. With proper judging under the current rules I don't feel he should have been declared the winner here, but the rules themselves are at fault too. Skaters getting far too many points for heavily flawed elements. It's too bad that his skating can't just be appreciated for what it is. He is special but he is not Godly across-the-board, as the scores would have you believe.

Takahashi was the best in the LP. His performance tonight was simply mesmerizing. I found myself continually drawn to every different part of his body. The quality of his edged and flow, the transitions between elements, the way he used his arms, the fluidity with which his entire body moves, and his facial expression...it was everything. Unfortunately his struggles in the SP keep him 3rd overall, in my estimation.

Fernandez was wonderful and is definitely the new Quad king. His packaging from Orser and Wilson highlights all of his charming qualities while keeping it classy and including plenty of movements that satisfy the rules for scoring big components. It must be said that his basic skating ability was probably the weakest out of all 6 men here, though. I'm sure he'll keep working on it, creating an even more delicious presentation out there. He also needs to keep working on the consistency all his jumps, although it must be said that the current scoring system is NOT fair with regards to rewarding programs as challenging as his. He is attempting the most difficult jump layout of anyone competing today and after doing 2 different Quads and 2 Triple Axels (one with a 3Toe), it's only natural that he is going to be more tired and not be able to back-load as consistently as competitors who put less in the earlier part of the program.

Jeremy delivered his strongest LP performance of the season and I was really happy to see him nail the Quad for the first time in 2 years. I really appreciate the sensitivity of his skating and what he is attempting with this program, although sadly the CoP rules detract from what he is trying to achieve. There are too many requirements to let this program truly breathe and exist as its own unique mood piece. Jeremy still has work to do technically as well if he wants to get to the top. Falling twice doesn't help, but he also has yet to do the important 3Toe-in-comination during his LP this season.

Brezina has a program that not too many people seem to be fond of, but I find it interesting. Certainly the concept and some of the energy being thrown out there is great; I'd say the flaw is in how it gets a bit too repetitive. I don't think he himself is a natural performer either, or at least not a natural artist...someone who yearns to expression their inner workings. As always he seems to lose steam and make mistakes later in the program as well. Still, he is certainly talented and very competent, with flashes of brilliance that make you think he could become magical.

Wallylutz, I'm glad you are the one to write that post re Junior Men. I'm staying in one sharks' tank, thank you. BTW, the quad jumping silver medalist has been sick like a dog, having lost quite a bit of weight. And the Senior Men Gold medalist is still coughing and sniffling, sick since before TEB and having had to deal with tremendous stress maliciously imposed on him. What a competitor.

According to this this article, Chan Grand Prix champion, again, Chan received an apology from the Reuter reporter a couple of days ago. We know the press would never issue an apology unless they have to because they are absolutely wrong.

And congrulations again to Patrick Chan for being the first repeat winner of the GPF under COP, and being only the second man to accomplish the feat besides Plushenko. As well, with this win, he's won a full season/year of competitions.

Keep smiling all the way to the tops of the podiums, Patrick.

Here is something for you to or over:

For those wishing he would take a hike, it doesn't look like he's going anywhere soon.

He also vowed, after his brush with controversy in the press, to keep his good-natured attitude and candid chattiness rather than resort to a more-guarded approach.

“It's pretty difficult to change your personality,” he said. “I'm an honest person.”

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DiManno: Chan takes Grand Prix gold with pride

“No,’’ Chan reassured after his triumph here. “And I know you guys don’t want me to because I’ve heard that many times. I will do my best no to (change). I’ll try to keep my own personality. I’m very honest and I think that’s why it would be very hard for me to change what I say or the way I say it.

“One thing I will do is be more precise about what I’m trying to say and really concentrate on who I’m talking to and what do they want?’’

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what has happened to men competition and the thread keeps expanding? I mean I watched the youtube vids, but didnt see anything off ice, I was ready with my morning cofee to read the thread and now it got bigger, can someone make me a resume?

Blades of Passion said:

Hanyu

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Well, representing Japan, he is going to do some waiting no matter what. I love his passion, but I just keep thinking about how much better he would be with some polish & control.

Blades of Passion said:

Takahashi

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Blades of Passion said:

Fernandez

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Blades of Passion said:

Jeremy

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Not much to say about these fellas that I didn't already say in my previous post.

Blades of Passion said:

Patrick

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Blades of Passion said:

Brezina

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I just hope that as these two get older & have more life experiences to draw from, they'll be able to be more expressive &/or artful, because they both clearly have the technical capacity to do so effectively.
I hope that Chan will actually do as he says he does, and use his extreme score cushion to be more creatively adventurous. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening, at least not for a long time.
I think Brezina is on his way. He clearly very much appreciates the intangible side of the sport; he remains one of the few skaters I've seen list Buttle as a favorite, so I don't worry about a lack of taste. Also, whenever I watch footage of skaters standing around during the galas, he is always the one I see who is semi-or-not-so-semi-jamming to whatever music is being played. This is all to say that there is definitely something there! I think working with Camerlengo has really helped bring this out & I hope things continue in this direction.

claphappy said:

CHAN – Yeah, he falls & wins. What else is new?
But, getting to the program, it’s frustrating. He’s with the music plenty; could definitely be better, but not bad. It’s just: come on man! SHOW US SOME HEART!

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And that, essentially, is most people's problem with Chan; he's all ego, no heart. With him, it's all about, "look everyone, see how busy my programs can be and how many tricks I can cram into 4 and a half minutes." His fans are in on the act too with their proclamations about how much more difficult his programs are in comparison to his competitors. Whatever, I don't get any kind of emotional connection with him; he completely sacrifices heart and human connection in exchange for maximum points accumulation and super busy programs. That is why he will never be an Abbott or Takahashi or Savoie or Lambiel or Kozuka and so on. That is also why I believe many do not appreciate him in the way that he wants to be appreciated. Well, that, and the way this judging system constantly rewards him gold medals even when he makes more mistakes than others. Browning connected with the audience on an emotional level with his programs. Chan has a long way to go to learn this trait. JMO.

Blades of Passion said:

I would have put Patrick 2nd overall, although 3rd in the LP. I do agree this is the best he has skated his LP all season and, yes, his basic movement across the ice is staggering. However, I still question the quality of his interpretation and the effectiveness of his choreography, and there were of course 3 significant mistakes technically. He is definitely a miraculous skater in some regards, but to make all of the mistakes he did throughout the competition and not be as much of an artistic prodigy as he is technically, and still finish more than 10 points ahead of the rest of the field...ehhh. With proper judging under the current rules I don't feel he should have been declared the winner here, but the rules themselves are at fault too. Skaters getting far too many points for heavily flawed elements. It's too bad that his skating can't just be appreciated for what it is. He is special but he is not Godly across-the-board, as the scores would have you believe.

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Well said. The CoP is definitely partially to blame, but so is the judging. However, I respectfully disagree with your placement. Based on my personal score sheet, Chan would have still come out in first, but no way did he deserve to win the free.

wallylutz said:

So why is this the only measuring stick that you have been referring to so far? If my memory is correct, you are a Japanese living in Canada, aren't you? Could it be that you are a little upset that Takahashi didn't win, therefore, your emotions have clouded your logic and judgement?

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Wow. That is an extremely vile comment.

claphappy said:

Well, representing Japan, he is going to do some waiting no matter what. I love his passion, but I just keep thinking about how much better he would be with some polish & control.

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I agree that Hanyu needs more time to grow. I do think the judges are making him wait his turn just a bit, but he still lacks finesse.

That having been said, he is truly one of the most talented teenage male skaters the world has seen in years. Seldom do we see such a combination of athletic ability and artistic sense at that age. He will be one of the greats.

Edit: BTW, sorry for the multiple post. Forgot to multiquote.

I'm super-late and I've not read the whole thread yet, but you can't even start to imagine how big is what Javi has just got. I mean, this country has less than ten ice-rinks, no more than 7 skating clubs, etc. Javi is brilliant, and I really hope people (blinded by other sports) in Spain start to notice it.

I have a workmate from Spain. She specializes in tennis when she contributes news articles. I'll point her toward Javier. I'm sure she'll be very proud to have such a wonderful athlete taking Spain in an entirely new direction in sports.

I have read enough of this thread to wonder why there's so few attention to why Chan won the free: his tariff. With two quads to Takahashi's one it was higher enough than Takahashi's that the latter had to spend all his GOE catching up. If the quad hadn't been raised so high in value, Takahashi would've had enough of a tech lead the PCS difference wouldn't have matter. Chan would've still won overall, of course, but it's the same story in the short; Chan had such a lead over Abbott because he had the quad and Abbott didn't. And you can't blame Patrick for that; he wasn't even doing the quad when we saw Plushenko's tantrum that led to the tariff being raised. Patrick's merely seen an opportunity and taken advantage by focusing on the quad(possibly to the detriment of his other jumps).
I can't believe I'm defending Chan, I don't even like him that much...but the problem's not him, and it's not CoP overall; the GOEs certainly worked exactly as they should have in the free. It's that the quad's worth too (censored) much.

MissIzzy said:

...
I can't believe I'm defending Chan, I don't even like him that much...but the problem's not him, and it's not CoP overall; the GOEs certainly worked exactly as they should have in the free. It's that the quad's worth too (censored) much.

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I think it's rather that the falls are punished way too little. I would deduct 1 for the first, 2 for the second, 3 for the third, etc. I think a good skater has to strive for a clean skate when in competition. Also, presentation mark should suffer, falls do affect the presentation (at least for me personally), say if one falls it cant be out of 10 any more but rather out of 9 or something like that.

I did skate singles for a long time in the past, hence for me figure skating is a sport first and foremost. The best skater for me is an all around skater but that skater has to be consistent. Waiting for Han Yan to grow up, see how he'll do. So far men's field doesn't do it for me, lots of good skaters but none are outstanding.