GPF Men FP, Sat. 12/10 at 4:55 pm EST

[Olympia]

Speak no ill of Kurt while Tonichelle and I are within hearing distance!

[Kitt]

Don't forget that Chan had an ugly fall on a luz whereas Takahasi had none. And the chorographic movement where Chan raised his arms in the setup leading to the luz was behind the music. Since the definition of "Interpretation" includes the subtle use of finesse to reflect the nuances of the music, I think the loss of timing and the fall itself should have prevented him from beating Dai the brilliant dancer in that department.

Both Dai and Chan had their seasonal best. Dai's performance was easier for casual fans to enjoy whereas Chan's with multiple flaws mesmerized mainly the judges and the learned audience. I think Chan will continue to be under-appreciated by the general public if he does not produce clean programs more often.

This is a brilliant assessment of the situation!

[SkateFiguring]

Don't forget that Chan had an ugly fall on a luz whereas Takahasi had none. And the chorographic movement where Chan raised his arms in the setup leading to the luz was behind the music. Since the definition of "Interpretation" includes the subtle use of finesse to reflect the nuances of the music, I think the loss of timing and the fall itself should have prevented him from beating Dai the brilliant dancer in that department.

Both Dai and Chan had their seasonal best. Dai's performance was easier for casual fans to enjoy whereas Chan's with multiple flaws mesmerized mainly the judges and the learned audience. I think Chan will continue to be under-appreciated by the general public if he does not produce clean programs more often.

Casual fans know it's a competition. Chan won the LP by only 1 point which is probably not appreciated by casual fans as you said, but casual fans also know Chan had a big deserved lead in the SP over Takahashi who was actually 5th coming into the LP. Ending up in second speaks loudly about his LP performance.

[Tonichelle]

Speak no ill of Kurt while Tonichelle and I are within hearing distance!

That's right, I'm actually thinking of starting WW3 with Mathman over what he said earlier today.

[skatinginbc]

this is the thread for picking on Canadian male skaters with phenomenal skating abilities.

Chan's feeling "less Canadian" hasn't stopped people from picking on him. So it is not so much about "Canadian" as about "abilities". If you are a skater with phenomenal abilities, then get ready to be picked like a clean-plucked hen.

[SkateFiguring]

Speak no ill of Kurt while Tonichelle and I are within hearing distance!

Me too. I started reading the thread and met with the WTH proclamation by Mathman but chose my battle of today as I continued reading. Another day, it'd be a different battle I choose.

[jan]

Then he shouldn't have said skaters nowadays aren't doing split jumps in competitive programs any more. :P I'm just picking on ol' Kurt because this is the thread for picking on Canadian male skaters with phenomenal skating abilities.

Years ago every skater did a split jump in their program and Russian split jumps were very popular....Paul Wylie for example. They are rarely seen today. Because you seen one every now and then does not make Kurt's comment false. I have noticed in the past year or so that people are incorporating them back in to their programs along with moves like arabians.

[Olympia]

Don't worry, SF. Tonichelle and I have this one. Hear us roar!

[skatinginbc]

Casual fans know it's a competition. Chan won the LP by only 1 point which is probably not appreciated by casual fans as you said, but casual fans also know Chan had a big deserved lead in the SP over Takahashi who was actually 5th coming into the LP.

Come on, I was talking about LP only, which generates most controversies based on the posts I have read so far. I don't think many people complaining about his winning overall.

[prettykeys]

FTnoona, thank you for posting all the links to the Men's LPs and making it easy for us to click on them

I finally watched Daisuke and he was great, but I thought he seemed a little muted or distracted (perhaps he was focused on the technical?) compared to his usual self.

I re-watched Yuzuru and came to the conclusion that his LP is my second favourite of the Men's this season, with Patrick's edging him out for first (it's a little more sophisticated). Yuzuru's skating did slow a little in the middle, but it went with the music, and when the tempo increased again he kept up. There was also this moment that was lovely...when he did his 3Lz-2T, with his hands overhead on the 2T, and then they were brought down softly, just like a dancer's move. He was expressive throughout. I have no idea who his coach/choreographer Nanami Abe is, but she seems to be doing an awesome job with Yuzuru. He makes me think of him as a Japanese Jason Brown, except with quad and triple Axel.

[SkateFiguring]

Come on, I was talking about LP only, which generates most controversies based on the posts I have read so far. I don't think many people complaining about his winning overall.

I wouldn't call posters casual fans.

[Mathman]

...the main issue is that Chan had one fall while Takahashi was "clean". Well, he had a flawed quad and Chan had two. Sounds funny but two flawed quads beat one flawed quad in a skating program.

It does sound funny.

And going down the list, one pretty good triple Axel beat two pretty good triple Axels, one in combination with a triple toe.

And one 3Lz-hop-3S and a fall on a second triple Lutz attempt beat an average 3Lz+2T.

Add it all up and there you are!

Where I think CoP enthusiasts and ISU honchos are at fault is in blowing off the objections of the casual fans. Casual fans may not be experts but they know what they like. I do not see how the ISU thinks it can prosper if it continually dismisses the opinions of the paying customers.

Someone has to feed the kitty. Otherwise the ISU will have no choice but to raise dues on its membership, the national federations. These in turn will pass the charges along to grass roots club members and especially to the long-suffering parents. There is limit to how much even the most doting parent will shell out to indulge their children's fancies and whims. Many CoP apologists are so focussed on proving to everyone how "right" they are that they miss opportunities to expand the appeal of the sport.

Just my opinion, of course.

[claphappy]

Why do you think is that? what would be the object of overmarking a skater, a spaniard skater that is? If it was one from a country with a greater tradition I could think of something, but from Spain? I can't imagine why do that.

If Javier is being overmarked it is most likely because everyone is very excited about him. Certainly there is something to be excited about, but even justified excitement can cloud one's judgement.
If he is being overmarked for political reasons it would have nothing to do with the spanish fed and everything to do with the overall european contention. Brezina, Amodio, and Gachinski have all been less than stellar, so Javier may very well be (and definitely is now) seen as the european number one.

[SkateFiguring]

...the main issue is that Chan had one fall while Takahashi was "clean". Well, he had a flawed quad and Chan had two. Sounds funny but two flawed quads beat one flawed quad in a skating program.

It does sound funny.

And going down the list, one pretty good triple Axel beat two pretty good triple Axels, one in combination with a triple toe.

And one 3Lz-hop-3S and a fall on a second triple Lutz attempt beat an average 3Lz+2T.

Add it all up and there you are!

Come on, this is beneath you. You know those later faults from Chan ate up his huge BV advantage, or should we say they ate his second flawed quad.

Where I think CoP enthusiasts and ISU honchos are at fault is in blowing off the objections of the casual fans. Casual fans may not be experts but they know what they like. I do not see how the ISU thinks it can prosper if it continually dismisses the opinions of the paying customers.

Someone has to feed the kitty. Otherwise the ISU will have no choice but to raise dues on its membership, the national federations. These in turn will pass the charges along to grass roots club members and especially to the long-suffering parents. There is limit to how much even the most doting parent will shell out to indulge their children's fancies and whims. Many CoP apologists are so focussed on proving to everyone how "right" they are that they miss opportunities to expand the appeal of the sport.

Just my opinion, of course.

This has been discussed over and over and I wouldn't want to do it in this thread.

[Mathman]

That's right, I'm actually thinking of starting WW3 with Mathman over what he said earlier today.

I don't blame Kurt. He was just doing voiceover, reading the script that had been prepared for him.

Me too. I started reading the thread and met with the WTH proclamation by Mathman but chose my battle of today as I continued reading. Another day, it'd be a different battle I choose.

Hey, I was on your side!

Kurt said that Patrick put his foot in his mouth and now had to regain the favor of the fans by being more circumspect in his press conferences, etc.

I say baloney. I don't think Patrick said anything out of line, I don't think he needed to explain anything or to clarify anything or to apologize to anyone or to undergo training in public relations. (I also think that Skate Canada should not have tried to explain, clarify, apologize, blah, blah, blah, either.)

Patrick said what he said. End of discussion. Never explain, never complain.

Chan's position should be, "If you don't like my apples, don't shake my tree."