GPF Men FP, Sat. 12/10 at 4:55 pm EST

[seniorita]

Daisuke had the skate of the year for me. I dont wanna watch the rest.

[skatinginbc]

This has been discussed over and over.

It means it is a reoccurring problem that hasn't been addressed by the ISU and sooner or later they will have to face it.

[Tonichelle]

I don't blame Kurt. He was just doing voiceover, reading the script that had been prepared for him.

*gasp* now you suggest he isn't saying what he believes, that he's just some script reader... you really want to just live in the dog house, don't you?

[skateflower]

It does sound funny.

And going down the list, one pretty good triple Axel beat two pretty good triple Axels, one in combination with a triple toe.

And one 3Lz-hop-3S and a fall on a second triple Lutz attempt beat an average 3Lz+2T.

Add it all up and there you are!

Where I think CoP enthusiasts and ISU honchos are at fault is in blowing off the objections of the casual fans. Casual fans may not be experts but they know what they like. I do not see how the ISU thinks it can prosper if it continually dismisses the opinions of the paying customers.

Someone has to feed the kitty. Otherwise the ISU will have no choice but to raise dues on its membership, the national federations. These in turn will pass the charges along to grass roots club members and especially to the long-suffering parents. There is limit to how much even the most doting parent will shell out to indulge their children's fancies and whims. Many CoP apologists are so focussed on proving to everyone how "right" they are that they miss opportunities to expand the appeal of the sport.

Just my opinion, of course.

Great post, as always. You again expose how ridiculous, stupid and hypocrite those 'smart' CoP apologists and Chan fanatics are.

[Bluebonnet]

Don't forget that Chan had an ugly fall on a luz whereas Takahasi had none. And the chorographic movement where Chan raised his arms in the setup leading to the luz was behind the music. Since the definition of "Interpretation" includes the subtle use of finesse to reflect the nuances of the music, I think the loss of timing and the fall itself should have prevented him from beating Dai the brilliant dancer in that department.

There were many places in Takahashi's brilliant dance program which I can find off the best interpretation. My standard was Takahashi's NHK LP.

Both Dai and Chan had their seasonal best. Dai's performance was easier for casual fans to enjoy whereas Chan's with multiple flaws mesmerized mainly the judges and the learned audience. I think Chan will continue to be under-appreciated by the general public if he does not produce clean programs more often.

This is a perfect example that casual fans are not seeing programs with CoP glasses. They are using more subjectivity than the judges in judging skating.

[KKonas]

I don't blame Kurt. He was just doing voiceover, reading the script that had been prepared for him.



Hey, I was on your side!

Kurt said that Patrick put his foot in his mouth and now had to regain the favor of the fans by being more circumspect in his press conferences, etc.

I say baloney. I don't think Patrick said anything out of line, I don't think he needed to explain anything or to clarify anything or to apologize to anyone or to undergo training in public relations. (I also think that Skate Canada should not have tried to explain, clarify, apologize, blah, blah, blah, either.)

Patrick said what he said. End of discussion. Never explain, never complain.

Chan's position should be, "If you don't like my apples, don't shake my tree."

Ahh, but he did complain, Mathman. That's what got him into all this trouble.

[jettasian]

Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
This, ITA. I've been saying it for years now, ever since the COP was created by the Canadians. Poltics, politics, politics. They're all crooked. Fact.

THE funniest post of the thread. I have no words.

[Mathman]

Come on, this is beneath you. You know those later faults from Chan ate up his huge BV advantage, or should we say they ate his second flawed quad.

This has been discussed over and over and I wouldn't want to do it in this thread.

I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. I ought to have learned the futility of raising this point, but somehow I can't help myself.

Every time out I am astonished anew at the arrogance of ISU apologists who tell me what is and is not beneath me, who tell me what I know and don't know, and who basically proclaim,

The CoP is doing well.
If you don't like it, go to h**l.

[SkateFiguring]

Great post, as always. You again expose how ridiculous, stupid and hypocrite those 'smart' CoP apologists and Chan fanatics are.

If you want to get so personal, let's see who's the fanatic. In this thread, I wrote 3 posts concerning Chan's scores while you had about 10 posts slamming him and his fans. Do haters have more rights?

[jettasian]

I agree...I thought I'd see a better skate from Chan tonight and I would have been fine with him winning the free without the mistakes, but I don't like to see this kind of performance winning, no matter who does it. The components marks always seem so close together for a given skater; they should be judged separately. I really don't see how Chan had the best interpretation or performance/execution in particular. Yeah, he's got fantastic skating skills and transitions...so why does that automatically mean he gets the highest PCS across the board?

Wait, so it's not okay he won with mistakes. But it's okay others with mistakes? I don't know, EVERYONE made mistakes. PCS is always subjective, you don't see it, others do.

I find it's very funny that all the bitching and whining about the same thing over and over and over again and most people who complain seem to only count how many mistakes Chan makes, but nothing else.

[Bluebonnet]

Great post, as always. You again expose how ridiculous, stupid and hypocrite those 'smart' CoP apologists and Chan fanatics are.

These kinds of venomous languages can only show that you are desperate.

[skateflower]

Wait, so it's not okay he won with mistakes. But it's okay others with mistakes? I don't know, EVERYONE made mistakes. PCS is always subjective, you don't see it, others do.

I find it's very funny that all the bitching and whining about the same thing over and over and over again and most people who complain seem to only count how many mistakes Chan makes, but nothing else.

If Chan stops making mistake, the 'bitching' will stop, or
If Chan continues to make mistake but judges mark it correspondingly, the 'bitching' will stop.

It is really that simple.

[Poodlepal]

Ironically, in view of Patrick's complaints of insufficient acclaim, he would probably be more beloved if he skated cleaner (with a bit less of the fantastic difficulty that can't even be seen on TV) and lost occasionally, allowing for a genuine rivalry for people to chew on. Imagine the people new to skating who hear about this Wunderkind, and take up the trouble to see his gold medal winning performances. Don't you think they would be mightly confused?

I totally agree. You said it perfectly.
The fact is, the sport is being won on stuff that the average viewer isn't that impressed by. Patrick Chan can go across the ice on one leg where the others have to switch somewhere in the middle. Those who have skated are very impressed. But you know what? Until it was pointed out to me, I never noticed if a skater switched legs in the middle of his footwork. You know why? It looks good either way. In fact, it might be visually more appealing to switch legs in the middle.

A skater underrotates. You know what? I can't tell. A flutz? You can't really see it.

But falls are visible. And when someone who falls wins over someone who doesn't, it doesn't seem fair. Yes, if the faller is doing something never done before, I'd give him a break. But everyone now does the same triples and quads, more or less.
And to some extent, the results are predetermined. I mean, how much does one vary in skating skills, or transitions, or choreography from event to event? I would think, probably not that much, since you're doing the same program. The jumps were what might change from event to event. But if
a skater gets such a tremendous lead in non- jump related elements, it's no longer a competition. They can fall or elect not to do the harder jumps, and there's no real penalty.

[jettasian]

Okay, seriously. First, when it comes to RG the Russians are that far ahead. The trio of Kanaeva, Kondakova and Dmitrieva are head and shoulders above everyone else, so end of discussion. Chan is a lot like the Russian trio in rhythmic gymnastics, he IS that FAR ahead. I don't know if you have ever attended a live skating event with Chan in it, but there it becomes so much more obvious how much better he is than everyone else. I'm not kidding you, I was surprised how much better he really is the last time I saw him. Also consider here that he has a 5 points buffer in base value alone compared to Takahashi, so he can actually afford some mistakes.

There's really no point to tell this to the complainers. They only count mistakes, nothing else.

If Chan stops making mistake, the 'bitching' will stop, or
If Chan continues to make mistake but judges mark it correspondingly, the 'bitching' will stop.

It is really that simple.

So others can make mistakes, but Chan can not? And since when is Figure Skating score based on # of mistakes?

I don't think ppl are complaining about the TES. What gave Chan that huges score was the PCS. I'd agree with the TES. What he messed up on the two blotched quads he got back with his two 3-3s and footwork GOEs.

Some people WILL always find something to complain about Chan winning. Do you think if he didn't win the LP, they would be all happy and agree? Nope, they will find something else to whine and mourn about.

As someone's brought up before, why would one judge give Dai a 6.75 in Choreo while giving Patrick an 8.25. Dai got a 7.75 for interp from one judge and that same judge gives Patrick a 9.25. For me both choreos were wonderful and I think Dai did a good job with expressing his music as with Patrick, but why the huge discrepancy? I can understand that Patrick would have better SS than Dai. Patrick's knees are to die for My complaint and confusion isn't with the skater but with the judging criteria. I know that some may say that I should read the rule books, but that would take a long time hehehe

Because that judge wants Chan to skate for his/her country in Sochi, that's why

[Bluebonnet]

If you want to get so personal, let's see who's the fanatic. In this thread, I wrote 3 posts concerning Chan's scores while you had about 10 posts slamming him and his fans. Do haters have more rights?

That's what I'm wondering too!

They are starting to use hatred, venomous languages because they are lack of ability in reasoning.