GPF Men FP, Sat. 12/10 at 4:55 pm EST | Page 20 | Golden Skate

GPF Men FP, Sat. 12/10 at 4:55 pm EST

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Hanyu is overrated if anything. His PCS are too high for his still immature skating even if his skating skills are decent. Abbott didnt skate well in the LP so why on earth should his PCS be through the roof.

As for distinguishing just the skating skills category judges dont use PCS properly and score the skaters in the same order in all 5. This is nothing new, and anyone who followed the sport should be aware of this by now. I dont even know why they bother having seperate categories other than to the give the illiusion to fans of fairness and judging a variety of things.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
You fail to point out that Hanyu basically ran out of gas in the last minute of the program. So while you notice that Chan made multiple mistakes, but not Hanyu who's pretty weak at the last part of the program? And as for artistically, again, subjective. I didn't see Hanyu's performance with "so much heart" but Johnny-Weir hands flipping ups and downs and lefts and rights.

Hanyu didn't run out of gas in the last minute of the program. He slowed down a little bit, yes, and he messed up his last jump, yes, but his footwork sequence and final spin were still very good.

Chan is the one who had a more underwhelming final segment to his program. He had a wobbly edge going into his 3Lutz, fell on that jump, then had a wobbly edge exiting from his 2Axel, and then had a trip in his final footwork sequence. That's 4 errors right there, in addition to the step out on the first Quad at the beginning of the program and the -3 GOE quality 4Toe-2Toe combination he did afterward.

If you don't think a figure skater using their arms and hands is important, then whatever. There is nothing more to talk to you about. We are not discussing speed skating here.
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
If you don't think a figure skater using their arms and hands is important, then whatever. There is nothing more to talk to you about. We are not discussing speed skating here.

This has been my complaint in regards to ice-dance throughout the 90's. I watched footwork, transitions and dance get stripped away from programs because the judges reward speed above all else and it's difficult to maintain SPEED while doing footwork, transitions, etc. The judges are mad for speed above ALL else and that holds true for every discipline. It is much more difficult to do elements and skate fast but the rewarding of speed is and always has been over the top, IMO.
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Hanyu didn't run out of gas in the last minute of the program. He slowed down a little bit, yes, and he messed up his last jump, yes, but his footwork sequence and final spin were still very good.

Chan is the one who had a more underwhelming final segment to his program. He had a wobbly edge going into his 3Lutz, fell on that jump, then had a wobbly edge exiting from his 2Axel, and then had a trip in his final footwork sequence. That's 4 errors right there, in addition to the step out on the first Quad at the beginning of the program and the -3 GOE quality 4Toe-2Toe combination he did afterward.

If you don't think a figure skater using their arms and hands is important, then whatever. There is nothing more to talk to you about. We are not discussing speed skating here.

Nor we are discussing about Star on Ice.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
This has been my complaint in regards to ice-dance throughout the 90's. I watched footwork, transitions and dance get stripped away from programs because the judges reward speed above all else and it's difficult to maintain SPEED while doing footwork, transitions, etc. The judges are mad for speed above ALL else and that holds true for every discipline. It is much more difficult to do elements and skate fast but the rewarding of speed is and always has been over the top, IMO.

Especialy Gritschuk & Platov. The 94 Olympics is the worst example of all. They skated such a sloppy mostly horrendous FD but because they were so much faster than Torvill & Dean and Usova & Zhulin that night the judges gave them the win anyway.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
You guys really found Hanyu juniorish? It didn't strike me as juniorish at all. I thought he was so expressive of his music. At 17, he has that connection to the music or a certain something that I never get from Kozuka for example. I was impressed and thought, wow, this guy has all the goods, or at least the makings of it. I expected him to be above Javier, but I'm not the judges.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Especialy Gritschuk & Platov. The 94 Olympics is the worst example of all. They skated such a sloppy mostly horrendous FD but because they were so much faster than Torvill & Dean and Usova & Zhulin that night the judges gave them the win anyway.

Pangtongfan, I may not always agree with you, but in this case I most emphatically do. I can't believe that that hectic, almost feverish "Rock Around the Clock" beat out Torvill and Dean and Usova and Zhulin. Okay, T/D did an illegal lift. But Usova and Zhulin, one of the smoothest couples ever, with such chemistry...it doesn't bear thinking about. And then they won a second Olympics, giving them the record. On Planet Olympia, things would have turned out very differently.
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Yeah, but jettasian, I get the feeling that you have no appreciation for anyone other than Patrick Chan.

Please don't accuse me when you don't know me? I don't voice every skater I like doesn't mean I don't like them. I voice mostly about Chan because...well, this whole thread is pretty much about his mark, his inflation, corruption, mistakes etc. And now apparently, it's about his speed.... I wonder what is next. Maybe Skating Skill shouldn't be part of it since everyone should know how to skate... :rolleye:
 
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chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Please don't accuse me when you don't know me? I don't voice every skater I like doesn't mean I don't like them. I voice mostly about Chan because...well, this whole thread is pretty much about his mark, his inflation, corruption, mistakes etc. And now apparently, it's about his speed.... I wonder what is next. Maybe Skating Skill shouldn't be part of it since everyone should know how to skate... :rolleye:

I'm not accusing you of anything; I said it's a "feeling" I have, which is based on comments by you, and not just in this thread. It just seems when anyone says anything complimentary of another skater, you come back with something negative, be it Yuzuru Hanyu, Takahiko Kozuka, etc. I just think you are missing out on some wonderful skaters.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Pangtongfan, I may not always agree with you, but in this case I most emphatically do. I can't believe that that hectic, almost feverish "Rock Around the Clock" beat out Torvill and Dean and Usova and Zhulin. Okay, T/D did an illegal lift. But Usova and Zhulin, one of the smoothest couples ever, with such chemistry...it doesn't bear thinking about. And then they won a second Olympics, giving them the record. On Planet Olympia, things would have turned out very differently.

Poor Usova & Zhulin, one of the unluckiest couples ever. Deserved so much more, but seemingly were always 2nd or 3rd best in their federations eyes, amazingly even in a year enterining the Games as the reigning World Champions. I thought Torvill & Dean's FD was absolutely brilliant as well and even a legitimate deduction should have kept them above Gritschuk & Platov's sloppy performance.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
You guys really found Hanyu juniorish? It didn't strike me as juniorish at all. I thought he was so expressive of his music. At 17, he has that connection to the music or a certain something that I never get from Kozuka for example. I was impressed and thought, wow, this guy has all the goods, or at least the makings of it. I expected him to be above Javier, but I'm not the judges.

I dont find his interpretation, style, or presence on the ice mature compared to others in the event, or even Fernandez. Yes his skating skills are better but that is only one aspect of PCS, and as I said we all know the judges just look at the overall picture and score the PCS based on that, not on the individual categories as they are supposd to via the rules. After all skaters, with very rare exception, are in the same order for all 5. I actually thought Fernandez should have beaten Hanyu in Russia, and thought Hanyu was overscored there and in many of his events this year. Others seem to love him, to each their own.
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
I'm not accusing you of anything; I said it's a "feeling" I have, which is based on comments by you, and not just in this thread. It just seems when anyone says anything complimentary of another skater, you come back with something negative, be it Yuzuru Hanyu, Takahiko Kozuka, etc. I just think you are missing out on some wonderful skaters.

I'm not missing out anything. I enjoy their skates but I don't rave like many others. I like Javier, Tomas etc... They don't get picked on like Chan does.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I am thinking it is more likely Oda will make the Japanese World team this year. No way Takahashi isnt going, even if he bombs Nationals he will be sent IMO. Oda will be hard pressed to bump off either Kozuka or Hanyu.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
pangtongfan;600809[B said:
]I am thinking it is more likely Oda will make the Japanese World team this year.[/B] No way Takahashi isnt going, even if he bombs Nationals he will be sent IMO. Oda will be hard pressed to bump off either Kozuka or Hanyu.

You mean won't, right? Anyway, I agree if you mean won't. Though I wouldn't have wagered Kozuka being in this position at the beginning of the season.
 

Becki

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Wow 27 pages and counting......

At the end of the day, Patrick won the GPF, there's not much we can do about but look forward to other great competitions. He had a good SP and "decent" LP, "enough" for him to win the event. I still think Daisuke should have won the LP - his performance blew me away. It was just that good. Same with Yuzuru and Javier - those two are amazing.

Looking forward to 4CC and Worlds now :) I have a good feeling that if Daisuke throws away the Quad in his SP and tries to "reproduce" his NHK SP performance, along with "improving" his LP to maximize points - he'll be the 2012 World Champion :)
 

Becki

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
I dont find his interpretation, style, or presence on the ice mature compared to others in the event, or even Fernandez. Yes his skating skills are better but that is only one aspect of PCS, and as I said we all know the judges just look at the overall picture and score the PCS based on that, not on the individual categories as they are supposd to via the rules. After all skaters, with very rare exception, are in the same order for all 5. I actually thought Fernandez should have beaten Hanyu in Russia, and thought Hanyu was overscored there and in many of his events this year. Others seem to love him, to each their own.

I was listening to the EuroSport commentators, and I totally agree with them about Yuzuru's interpretation of the music. Yuzuru is the YOUNG Romeo, and I can totally feel that. He's charming, smooth, and fast on ice - and skates to every beat of the music. I don't know about presence on ice since I've never watched him live, but his performance is so captivating. I watched a few juniors skate, and I can tell you - Yuzuru does not skate like a junior, not in the technical or program component aspect. I don't even know what constitutes as "maturity" anymore =S I think Yuzuru skates like an experienced skater....if that defines maturity.

Can you explain HOW and WHY Yuzuru was overscored in many events this year? He has one of the highest technical scores, and deservingly so, because he executes his jumps with so much speed and height. And PCS- I think he has been lowballed a few times, 'cause I find his SS and Interpretation better than Javier, yet he's scored lower....
 
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