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Thread: GPF Men FP, Sat. 12/10 at 4:55 pm EST

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Wrong. Even a 10-year-old can tell that Chan fell but Dai did not. Chan also had two messy jumps whereas Dai only had one. It is objective and straightforward. Of course, I'm not arguing it should be the only measuring stick. It is a measuring stick nonetheless.
    A 10 year old can also tell that Chan did way more stuff in between his jumps, was really fast and smooth and Dai also wasn't clean. So we should judge only on the jumps? Don't think that's where we want to go as a sport - become a jumping contest.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    This cannot be called a sport anymore. A hoax maybe, but not a sport.
    It is exactly a sport. Some people just cannot accept that figure skating is a sport over an art.

    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    I wonder if CoP glasses can be blinding sometimes. A poster remarked, "The components marks always seem so close together for a given skater; they should be judged separately."
    You know what? One judge particularly seemed to have done just that. Then there was an outcrying that he should be investigated.


    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Cleanness of the performance is an objective measurement. It can be judged even by a casual fan, uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices. The CoP glasses dilute such an objective measurement. It makes the fans wonder what color the judges actually see through those glasses.
    If it is truly a sport, the cleanness in the sense of a performing art shouldn't be the most important measurement.

  3. #303
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    Is it Chan's actual personality that has affected his popularity?? I'm truly curious. I'm pretty neutral on Chan but I see how good he is.

    I think of how loved Jeff B was. I mean he was awesome on the blade and he had the personality to go with it.

  4. #304
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    I'm gonna go through all the lads. However, it's been a few hours since I watched and I may not have all of my thoughts with me. I'm not very well versed technically, but I am no stranger to the arts, thus my commentary will be regarding that old so-&-so.

    BREZINA - Believe it or not, I like his "Point Break but with Raving" program. The contrast makes both types of music more interesting & creates some great pacing (which is great for Brezina, who's attention span I question).
    Now that I'm done justifying my preferences, this was clearly the best outing with this program. Despite jumping mistakes & lack of stamina in the latter half, he stayed engage for the entirety. This was also the most articulate his movement has been with this program.
    With some training time, I’d say he has a good chance of turning this season around. But, then again, he's been having no shortage of boot problems & may or may not be having coaching problems too, so what do I know?

    TAKAHASHI - Whenever I watch, I can't help but think about how grateful I am to be able witness such a talent in his day.
    He seemed so at ease! Nothing was getting to him at all. He just let each movement happen as it did & it was brilliant!
    I'm just going to stop before I start writing in nothing but exclamation points and emoticons.

    HANYU - I know I will like him, but, right now, he's just too rough around the edges for me. Now, there are plenty of unpolished skaters that I like, but on Hanyu, it seems so unbecoming. It just doesn't suit him.
    Also, watching Hanyu right after Takahashi, it was so easy to see how nervous he was, especially at the slow section. Halfway through it all I could think was, “You have no idea what to do with yourself now, do you?” Then, when he went back to the intense music, I just imagined someone speaking super fast during a presentation (that's what I meant by "nervous"). I really appreciate how much he surrenders himself to a program, but I wonder if that's not partly because he's trying tune out the audience. I dunno.
    Like I said, I know I will like him.

    FERNANDEZ – I don’t know; I’m just not groovin’ with him.
    >Part of it is because, as far as I can tell, he has, for the most part, played the role of the “fun guy” & I already have Verner & Oda for that (also Dornbush who I prefer for a number reasons). ((<-the fact that he is American i just barley on that list.))
    >Part of it is because I associate Rigoletto too much with cartoons to take it seriously.
    Anyways, I guess this is all just totally my preference. : /
    But, to compare him to Hanyu, I see Fernandez being very much into the audience & performing to them, but not nearly as much into his program (this critique is specifically about his FS; that’s exactly what he should be doing for his SP). I prefer a balance between being engaged with the audience and being engaged (emotionally) with the program, but if I had to choose, I prefer the latter.

    ABBOTT – Again, this is another skater who I am so gracious to be able to see in competition.
    I love how the music & the costume allow you to just pay attention to the beauty of his skating. Watching his program puts you into this wonderful dream-like state. I love it so much!
    My only question is: “Why doesn’t he wear one of those flesh tone gloves? Even just on the one hand.” Maybe the bleeding incident at CoR was a one time thing. Who knows?

    CHAN – Yeah, he falls & wins. What else is new?
    But, getting to the program, it’s frustrating. He’s with the music plenty; could definitely be better, but not bad. It’s just: come on man! SHOW US SOME HEART!


    Also, this has nothing to do with any one skater, but while watching the men, I thought about how in emoting, you don’t see a lot of skaters reacting to their reactions. It’s an old acting tip, and there are not a few skaters who would benefit from utilizing it! ;)
    Last edited by claphappy; 12-11-2011 at 04:15 AM.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    Is it Chan's actual personality that has affected his popularity?? I'm truly curious. I'm pretty neutral on Chan but I see how good he is.

    I think of how loved Jeff B was. I mean he was awesome on the blade and he had the personality to go with it.
    I believe so. Personally, I myself have been put off by some of his comments, and while I haven't resorted to name calling like others at Golden Skate and other websites have, I can understand why his persona is off putting to some. Because he, like Carolina Kostner before him, benefits tremendously from the structure of COP, he definitely becomes an easy target.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    A 10 year old can also tell that Chan did way more stuff in between his jumps
    You just made me feel stupid. I am many years older than a 10 year old, but I honestly can't tell if Chan did way more stuff in between than Dai did.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-11-2011 at 01:30 AM.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    Is it Chan's actual personality that has affected his popularity?? I'm truly curious. I'm pretty neutral on Chan but I see how good he is.

    I think of how loved Jeff B was. I mean he was awesome on the blade and he had the personality to go with it.
    To me, no. His personality is not a factor. Jeff B. is a very nice guy and a world champion. However, I doubt many people still remember his name since his retirement not long ago. This just shows you how unpopular figure skaitng is these days.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I believe so. Personally, I myself have been put off by some of his comments, and while I haven't resorted to name calling like others at Golden Skate and other websites have, I can understand why his persona is off putting to some. Because he, like Carolina Kostner before him, benefits tremendously from the structure of COP, he definitely becomes an easy target.
    I was thinking that may be it. It's like 10 plus pages arguing on Chan. I just don't see this happening on this level if it were someone who's generally liked (ie. Carolina).

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateflower View Post
    To me, no. His personality is not a factor. Jeff B. is a very nice guy and a world champion. However, I doubt many people still remember his name since his retirement not long ago. This just shows you how unpopular figure skaitng is these days.
    even at the height of skating's popularity in North America not all of the "top skaters" were and are remembered after retirement.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTnoona View Post
    Love Love this performance..

  11. #311
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    Patrick has a great personality and is well loved by those who know him and the Canadian skating community in general. He has goodwill because he gives back to the society, having recently received a pretigious national honor for his community services and leadership. I knew his fans would show him support and they did, even though he had expected to be booed. I wrote in another thread that though the release of the manipulative twisting report was timed to hurt him the most, it actually helped him recover fast because, 1) he had to put it aside as much as he could to focus on the competition, and 2) his fans had an immediate chance to show him their support.

    Sure some people now have another piece of malicious misinformation to use against him forever, but it's just another learning opportunity for him. Liberace cried all the way to the bank but Patrick still smiles all the way to the top of the podium.

  12. #312
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    watching the men now, though the whole thing is choppy due to the weather - we've got a massive storm moving in...

    I just love watching my dad get all giddy over a perfectly centered spin (watching Abbott at the moment)

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachmaninoff View Post
    Er...no.

    If a skater makes mistakes but still has the best performance of the night, then he should win, whether his name is Patrick Chan or something else. I thought Chan deserved first in the short in spite of his mistakes (I believe I said so in the SP thread). If he'd hit his jumps in the free, I'd have been fine with him winning that segment too because that would have made him undeniably superior that night, regardless of whether he deserved the best PCS all across the board (which was what the post of mine you quoted was actually questioning, not whether someone can have a certain number of mistakes and win).

    I don't think it's the outrage plenty of others here seem to think (the scores between the top two were close after all, and Dai didn't hit a quad either), but I do think it's questionable. And if this is the kind of performance that starts winning major events frequently under CoP, then I'd like to see things change.
    So Chan won because of CoP? You know that CoP wasn't designed FOR Chan right? I think it's more like that since Chan has won so many, there must be something wrong with CoP. Maybe CoP should be changed so Chan can't win. Yeah, I see the logic...

    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    I hope mine wasn't counted. I may be "bashing" the judging system, but not Chan. He skated a seasonal best and of course deserved a higher score compared to his previous ones. I think a lot (though not all) of so-called "Chan bashing" is about the system, not him personally.
    And exactly what's wrong with the system?
    Last edited by jettasian; 12-11-2011 at 01:18 AM.

  14. #314
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    Alright, normally I'm not "okay" with Chan winning with mistakes, because they're normally pretty huge mistakes and lots of them... Was it clean? No, but he wasn't a zamboni like normal either...

    We have to remember that under the "old and most perfect" system, Dai wouldn't even be within range of gold after the short. That was a large deficit to make up, plus teh base value and all that stuff that I don't know every infinite detail of (and don't care to) and Chan had wiggle room. I'm okay with this win though I personally prefer several of the other guys in this competition to Chan...

    not that it matters. *shrugs* just how I see it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    A 10 year old can also tell that Chan did way more stuff in between his jumps, was really fast and smooth and Dai also wasn't clean. So we should judge only on the jumps? Don't think that's where we want to go as a sport - become a jumping contest.
    I think since that Chan has fallen so many times (8 now by accumulative term), some may want this to be "whoever falls the most shouldn't deserve to win" contest...

    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    Is it Chan's actual personality that has affected his popularity?? I'm truly curious. I'm pretty neutral on Chan but I see how good he is.

    I think of how loved Jeff B was. I mean he was awesome on the blade and he had the personality to go with it.
    I think it's more like that since he has won so many, and some people's favourites didn't win.
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 12-11-2011 at 01:42 AM. Reason: it's common courtesy to not continuously double post.

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