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Thread: GPF Men FP, Sat. 12/10 at 4:55 pm EST

  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrScroogeMcDuck View Post
    LOL. That sounds like some people on this forum at times. Some of us do understand the rules and COP quite well, thank you very much.
    Do you? Then please show us in CoP term exactly how Chan was overmarked.

  2. #317
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    PLEASE REMEMBER: It is common courtesy among online forums to not double post (aka post back to back). It dominates the thread in a not so friendly way. Please use the multiquote feature when replying to more than one poster at a time. You can reference how to do so in the feedback forum. Thank you!

  3. #318
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    I'm trying to study the results. I think under CoP, SS is the basic in PCS. We've discussed it so deeply and intensively not long ago. I think the judges were doing just that. If one performs on the floor, it'll be so much easier to materialize PE, CH, and IN. Once on ice, all these qualities will face far more difficult challenges as could be easily understood. Patrick Chan has performed all those qualities under faster speed, deeper edges, and smooth flow. I don't know if I'm correct but I think the judges have bult SS into the rest of PCS. You don't like it? Then go ahead and skate more powerfully and faster, use insanely deep edges like Chan, and see if you can still keep the same PE, CH, and IN qualities?
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 12-11-2011 at 02:59 AM.

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I am trying to study the results. I think under CoP, SS is the basic in PCS. We've discussed it so deep and intense not long ago. I think the judges were doing just that. If one performs on the floor, it'll be so much easier to materialize PE, CH, and IN. Once on ice, all these qualities will face far more difficult challenges as could be easily understood. Patrick Chan has performed all those qualities under faster speed, deeper edges, and smooth flowing. I don't know if I'm correct but I think the judges have bult SS into the rest of PCS. You don't like it? Then go ahead and skate more powerful and faster, use insanely deep edges like Chan, and see if you can still keep the same PE, CH, and IN qualities?
    Don't make such a challenge. You'll offend many who appreciate choregraphies with multiple built in double purposed halts, so the skaters can take some breaths and gain PE, CH, and IN points by emoting with facial expressions, thrusting their hips, and caressing themselves seductively.

  5. #320
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Don't make such a challenge. You'll offend many who appreciate choregraphies with multiple built in double purposed halts, so the skaters can take some breaths and gain PE, CH, and IN points by emoting with facial expressions, thrusting their hips, and caressing themselves seductively.
    You know how it is different strokes for different folks.

  6. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    You know how it is different strokes for different folks.
    Yes. Me, I prefer skaters to stroke the ice rather than their bodies.

  7. #322
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    You know how it is different strokes for different folks.
    sometimes breaks are nice.

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    Favorite performance for me was Yuzuru Hanyu! Loved everything about it....from the music to his cute reaction at the end

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    sometimes breaks are nice.
    I do not object that if it goes with the music. But not too many or it'll be like a performance on the floor. Chan's program has a break too.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Don't make such a challenge. You'll offend many who appreciate choregraphies with multiple built in double purposed halts, so the skaters can take some breaths and gain PE, CH, and IN points by emoting with facial expressions, thrusting their hips, and caressing themselves seductively.
    I disliked Amodio's programs so much.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 12-11-2011 at 02:21 AM.

  10. #325
    Custom Title EricRohmer's Avatar
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    Ironically, among this season's Chan LP performances(4) I most like his TEB performance in sick condition.
    There is a fragile feel within the performance. (In addition, the beautiful blade sounds.)

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Wrong. Even a 10-year-old can tell that Chan fell but Dai did not. Chan also had two messy jumps whereas Dai only had one. It is objective and straightforward. Of course, I'm not arguing it should be the only measuring stick. It is a measuring stick nonetheless.
    So why is this the only measuring stick that you have been referring to so far? If my memory is correct, you are a Japanese living in Canada, aren't you? Could it be that you are a little upset that Takahashi didn't win, therefore, your emotions have clouded your logic and judgement?

    In the same vein, do you feel the "casual fans" that you and Mathman referred to in this thread can tell:

    1) Difference between a Quad and a Triple?

    2) Which skater has more Tripe-Triple combos?

    3) Which skater has better spins/footwork?

    4) Which skater has more speed?

    5) Which skaters had more jumps in total?

    I eagerly await how you and Mathman answer to these questions as the self-claimed representatives of "casual fans".
    Last edited by wallylutz; 12-11-2011 at 02:42 AM.

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    So why is this the only measuring stick that you have been referring to so far? If my memory is correct, you are a Japanese living in Canada, aren't you? Could it be that you are a little upset that Takahashi didn't win, therefore, your emotions have clouded your logic and judgement?

    In the same vein, do you feel the "casual fans" that you and Mathman referred to in this thread can tell:

    1) Difference between a Quad and a Triple?

    2) Which skater has more Tripe-Triple combos?

    3) Which skater has better spins/footwork?

    4) Which skater has more speed?

    5) Which skaters had more jumps in total?

    I eagerly await how you and Mathman answer to these questions as the self-claimed representatives of "casual fans".
    I hope these casual fans don't cheat by looking up the Protocol!

  13. #328
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    It's getting really late here in Quebec and I actually do need to wake up tomorrow morning. Someone just PM me and asked me about the Junior Men competition today so it reminded me that many of you didn't see it and probably never would bother, including the so called people's representatives because there is no "Rock Star" there that would make any of you upset: "the casual fans whose anger with CoP will kill the sport eventually". I got a newsflash for you to roll over 3 times and be super upset about. The winner of the junior men's event has no Triple Axel or Quad. Now, listen carefully, the winner didn't attempt either a 3A or any Quads but the 5 other junior men all did, including the eventual 2nd place finisher who landed a clean Quad Toe and Triple Axel, along with 7 other Triples. Now, let me tell you the name of the winner: Jason Brown from the United States. Now, I have to ask, all the people who claimed CoP is killing the sport, would you now petition the ISU to have Jason Brown's Gold medal revoked? Because you know, under the definition of "casual fans" that I read here, this too would be scandalous and no, the 2nd place guy didn't fall.

    Now, if you wouldn't protest about Jason Brown's Gold medal, who won with no Triple Axel or Quad and the 2nd place guy didn't fall and had clean Quad and Triple Axel, I eagerly await for our casual fans to suddenly become highly informed and educated about figure skating in all its complexity...
    Last edited by wallylutz; 12-11-2011 at 03:19 AM.

  14. #329
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    This was a phenomenal competition and it was clear how hard all 6 of these men were pushing themselves and how much the system demands of them. The SPEED and INTRICACY which all of the skaters are striving for is almost ridiculous. It's certainly impressive to see, although at times the focus on performance and musical nuance and meaningful movement seems to be lost in the quest for "more, More, MORE!!!" We need to ask ourselves exactly how much is a good thing and if too much of one is overwhelming another aspect of the whole. I still don't believe the 5 program components are being used as accurately as they should be.

    For me, Hanyu deserved to win the competition. His Long Program here looked slightly more rushed then in the past, but he still skated beautifully (so much HEART) and this is technically the strongest he has ever been. Only that one mistake on the least important jump element. Since the judges are making him wait his turn, I sure hope he continues to be as interesting and alive in the future as he has been this season.

    I would have put Patrick 2nd overall, although 3rd in the LP. I do agree this is the best he has skated his LP all season and, yes, his basic movement across the ice is staggering. However, I still question the quality of his interpretation and the effectiveness of his choreography, and there were of course 3 significant mistakes technically. He is definitely a miraculous skater in some regards, but to make all of the mistakes he did throughout the competition and not be as much of an artistic prodigy as he is technically, and still finish more than 10 points ahead of the rest of the field...ehhh. With proper judging under the current rules I don't feel he should have been declared the winner here, but the rules themselves are at fault too. Skaters getting far too many points for heavily flawed elements. It's too bad that his skating can't just be appreciated for what it is. He is special but he is not Godly across-the-board, as the scores would have you believe.

    Takahashi was the best in the LP. His performance tonight was simply mesmerizing. I found myself continually drawn to every different part of his body. The quality of his edged and flow, the transitions between elements, the way he used his arms, the fluidity with which his entire body moves, and his facial expression...it was everything. Unfortunately his struggles in the SP keep him 3rd overall, in my estimation.

    Fernandez was wonderful and is definitely the new Quad king. His packaging from Orser and Wilson highlights all of his charming qualities while keeping it classy and including plenty of movements that satisfy the rules for scoring big components. It must be said that his basic skating ability was probably the weakest out of all 6 men here, though. I'm sure he'll keep working on it, creating an even more delicious presentation out there. He also needs to keep working on the consistency all his jumps, although it must be said that the current scoring system is NOT fair with regards to rewarding programs as challenging as his. He is attempting the most difficult jump layout of anyone competing today and after doing 2 different Quads and 2 Triple Axels (one with a 3Toe), it's only natural that he is going to be more tired and not be able to back-load as consistently as competitors who put less in the earlier part of the program.

    Jeremy delivered his strongest LP performance of the season and I was really happy to see him nail the Quad for the first time in 2 years. I really appreciate the sensitivity of his skating and what he is attempting with this program, although sadly the CoP rules detract from what he is trying to achieve. There are too many requirements to let this program truly breathe and exist as its own unique mood piece. Jeremy still has work to do technically as well if he wants to get to the top. Falling twice doesn't help, but he also has yet to do the important 3Toe-in-comination during his LP this season.

    Brezina has a program that not too many people seem to be fond of, but I find it interesting. Certainly the concept and some of the energy being thrown out there is great; I'd say the flaw is in how it gets a bit too repetitive. I don't think he himself is a natural performer either, or at least not a natural artist...someone who yearns to expression their inner workings. As always he seems to lose steam and make mistakes later in the program as well. Still, he is certainly talented and very competent, with flashes of brilliance that make you think he could become magical.
    Last edited by Blades of Passion; 12-11-2011 at 03:15 AM.

  15. #330
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    Wallylutz, I'm glad you are the one to write that post re Junior Men. I'm staying in one sharks' tank, thank you. BTW, the quad jumping silver medalist has been sick like a dog, having lost quite a bit of weight. And the Senior Men Gold medalist is still coughing and sniffling, sick since before TEB and having had to deal with tremendous stress maliciously imposed on him. What a competitor.

    According to this this article, Chan Grand Prix champion, again, Chan received an apology from the Reuter reporter a couple of days ago. We know the press would never issue an apology unless they have to because they are absolutely wrong.

    And congrulations again to Patrick Chan for being the first repeat winner of the GPF under COP, and being only the second man to accomplish the feat besides Plushenko. As well, with this win, he's won a full season/year of competitions.

    Keep smiling all the way to the tops of the podiums, Patrick.

    Here is something for you to or over:

    For those wishing he would take a hike, it doesn't look like he's going anywhere soon.

    He also vowed, after his brush with controversy in the press, to keep his good-natured attitude and candid chattiness rather than resort to a more-guarded approach.

    “It's pretty difficult to change your personality,” he said. “I'm an honest person.”
    DiManno: Chan takes Grand Prix gold with pride

    “No,’’ Chan reassured after his triumph here. “And I know you guys don’t want me to because I’ve heard that many times. I will do my best no to (change). I’ll try to keep my own personality. I’m very honest and I think that’s why it would be very hard for me to change what I say or the way I say it.

    “One thing I will do is be more precise about what I’m trying to say and really concentrate on who I’m talking to and what do they want?’’
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 12-11-2011 at 04:24 AM.

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