Volosozhar/Trankov or Savchenko/Szolkovy? Whom do you prefer and why?

Big Deal · Jan 12, 2012

I like them both with a preferance of S/S because of their succesful effort to be very original and artistic. Even though they seem to be more vulnerable in a way.
The most important thing is the best on the competition HAS TO win, and it will not create any hatery.
They are all nice, professional sportsmen.

DianaSelene · Jan 12, 2012

I completely understand how people are saying that they like S/S because they are more artistic and have better choreography, etc. However, V/T have been skating together for a very short time and won't continue past Sochi (therefore have less time to develop and have less interesting programs) so of course they won't have as many memorable performances. It is very sad that they just teamed up because they could have been absolutely amazing right now if they would have started skating together 4 or 5 years ago.

mousepotato · Jan 12, 2012

V/T get a lot of credit for being good especially because they achieve so much with their former partners. But they still have a lot to work on, especially to get to the level of S/S.

V/T may have a high twist but not choreography going into it and sometimes she doesn’t get a true split and only gets a level 1. I think B/L have a much better twist.

S/S throws are much better, their 3F is to die for, she is almost at chin level. Volo tend to two foot way too many of her landing and that will have to change. S/S have better pairs spins at this point; V/T can get better with time they just aren't there yet. As far as lifts go I think S/S have much better lifts, Trankov looks way too labored and the lifts plus the exits are too easy, they should look effortless if they are not going to put any difficulty in them. There is one lift where he doesn’t even go ¼ - ½ of the rink.

I agree that V/T haven’t been around much to show versatility however they have been together for almost two years and for all Trankov’s talk about dumbing down choreography for Maria and not getting to do what he wants, they really haven’t done anything ground breaking. Carmina Burana, Romeo & Juliet…Swans….please it’s all been done it’s time to put his money where his mouth is.

Aliona is far more expressive on the ice then Tatiana who just seems to skate right through the music hoping the elements will be enough and I think Robin and Maxim are equally matched as far as skill.

S/S outshines them in choreography by a mile. (Thanks Ingo!)

But the funny thing is with everyone assuming it will be S/S and V/T going gold and silver at the Olympics…..just remember what happened to Irina and Michelle, no one saw Sarah Hughes coming.

PS Why won’t V/T continue past Sochi, to my knowledge this has never been said by either of them.

DianaSelene · Jan 12, 2012

^
I was not comparing them in so much detail as you have. My point was that it takes time to build a relationship on ice to become an excellent couple so even if they had successful careers with former partners, no one should expect that they have mind-boggling choreography and chemistry on ice.

It was never said officially that they won't continue past Sochi but Trankov said in an interview before that they will only have about four years together and will not be able to skate as much as they want to.

Both couples have flaws and we all have different reasons for why we like S/S over V/T or the other way. Personally, I would always put V/T on top because I feel mesmerized when I watch them that I haven't felt since B/S. S/S leave me cold.

mousepotato · Jan 13, 2012

Chemistry is one thing; choreography is quite another. There is no reason in their second year together they can't handle doing harder more unique choreography, they just need to be taught it by a "good" choreographer. That is what Trankov complained about with Oleg and Maria; not being able to handle hard choreography yet V/T haven't shown any and now they are about to be in their 3rd year. If in fact they are retiring after 2014 they only have 2 more years to do it.

bsfan · Jan 13, 2012

I prefer V/T. But I like a healthy rivary btw V/T and S/S the best. Hope they can push each other for good.

Just have a question: since posters are talking about this issue, is V/T's choreography this year easier than M/T or about the same?

DianaSelene · Jan 13, 2012

Just because V/T do not have choreographically good programs does not mean that they are not able to execute difficult good programs. It is just that right now they have a bad choreographer.

ImaginaryPogue · Jan 14, 2012

If V/T had S/S' choreography, then them for sure. If Aliona had Tatiana's gorgeous lines/positions (mousepotato, I'm surprised you didn't mention this when talking about lifts), it would be S/S by a country mile. S/S win on accrued points - "The Mission" and "Out of Africa" and "L'Oiseau" and "Pina" are just too good a murderer's row to deny, but if V/T ever get a program worthy of them..... whoa.

DianaSelene, where would you rank Totmianina/Marinin in the Russian canon. What do you prefer about V/T that you would skip them and go back to B/S?

DianaSelene · Jan 14, 2012

ImaginaryPogue said:
If V/T had S/S' choreography, then them for sure. If Aliona had Tatiana's gorgeous lines/positions (mousepotato, I'm surprised you didn't mention this when talking about lifts), it would be S/S by a country mile. S/S win on accrued points - "The Mission" and "Out of Africa" and "L'Oiseau" and "Pina" are just too good a murderer's row to deny, but if V/T ever get a program worthy of them..... whoa.

DianaSelene, where would you rank Totmianina/Marinin in the Russian canon. What do you prefer about V/T that you would skip them and go back to B/S?

I agree with you. The only thing V/T currently lack is a 3-3 and better choreography. Volosozhar's lines and arms are to die for. It annoys me when some say "Well, they don't have good choreography so they might not be capable of doing it." Have I been to their practices? Do I know if they tried difficult choreography and decided they can't do it? I don't believe that skaters with such great skating skills, posture, etc. would not be able to skate to difficult choreography. It is just that currently they decided to work with a poor choreographer- not a very good choice- but that doesn't take away the fact that they are still great skaters.

About T/M. They are one of my favorite pairs because of their performance in Torino. However, other than 2006, I was rarely mesmerized by them. They had great technique- good jumpers and consistent. My favorite programs were their Snowstorm, Romeo and Juliet, and Ave Maria. But B/S was exciting to watch every single competition. I never grew tired of their skating even if they skated poorly. This is what I feel with V/T. It reminds me of Plushenko- he has a quality that makes you want to watch him.

mousepotato · Jan 14, 2012

ImaginaryPogue said:
If V/T had S/S' choreography, then them for sure. If Aliona had Tatiana's gorgeous lines/positions (mousepotato, I'm surprised you didn't mention this when talking about lifts), it would be S/S by a country mile. S/S win on accrued points - "The Mission" and "Out of Africa" and "L'Oiseau" and "Pina" are just too good a murderer's row to deny, but if V/T ever get a program worthy of them..... whoa.

I don't think Tatiana has any better "lines or posture" than Aliona. Aliona has amazing edges and knee bend, but I think Tatiana skates on a flat foot too much.

DianaSelene · Jan 14, 2012

mousepotato said:
I don't think Tatiana has any better "lines or posture" than Aliona. Aliona has amazing edges and knee bend, but I think Tatiana skates on a flat foot too much.

Really?? Just look at the her hands, smoother moves, better extensions. Look at some of their videos again. You'll see, and if you still deny it, then I can't change your opinion nor will I try.

mousepotato · Jan 14, 2012

DianaSelene said:
Really?? Just look at the her hands, smoother moves, better extensions. Look at some of their videos again. You'll see, and if you still deny it, then I can't change your opinion nor will I try.

You look at the videos; I know what I see. No you won't change my mind, I've been watching pairs too long, skating like you have an apple on your head doesn’t mean you have good knee bend and edges, if it did Bazarova would be a world champion by now. Obviously you adore Tatiana and that's fine, go right on ahead. I have more than backed up the reason why I prefer S/S over V/T; you can either accept it or you can't.

Maybe if V/T start doing better choreography like Pink Panther or Pina I may change my mind but as long as they are stuck in the Morozovian rut that is Romeo and Juliet or The Swans.....I doubt it.

DianaSelene · Jan 14, 2012

mousepotato said:
You look at the videos; I know what I see. No you won't change my mind, I've been watching pairs too long, skating like you have an apple on your head doesn’t mean you have good knee bend and edges, if it did Bazarova would be a world champion by now. Obviously you adore Tatiana and that's fine, go right on ahead. I have more than backed up the reason why I prefer S/S over V/T; you can either accept it or you can't.

Maybe if V/T start doing better choreography like Pink Panther or Pina I may change my mind but as long as they are stuck in the Morozovian rut that is Romeo and Juliet or The Swans.....I doubt it.

Again, It doesn't matter to me if you disagree but I have been watching pairs skating for quite some time as well and know what a really good pair looks like. You're right, I am a Volosozhar fan just as you adore Savchenko. But you say she skates like she has an apple on her head- quite wrong. That would be Bazarova which is a big difference. Volosozhar, on the other hand, moves her whole body.

And about you changing your mind, V/T would care less what you or I think as long as they get medals.

ImaginaryPogue · Jan 14, 2012

Wait, really? I mean, I agree with you that S/S are the better couple, but give credit where credit is due, at least, mousepotato.

Olympia · Jan 14, 2012

I couldn't begin to argue to the level of detail you all have cited. It seems to me that both of these couples are excellent enough so that, if one is better with this jump and the other is better with that lift, it kind of evens out and comes down to personal preference. For me, S/S have the added dimension of being wonderful interpreters of innovative choreography. Their work reflects well on their own abilities and on those of Ingo Steuer, who's got some fabulous ideas that are in an entirely diifferent direction from everyone else's. So I prefer S/S. Without sacrificing any technical level or grace, they make me feel that I'm looking at skating in an entirely new way.

mousepotato · Jan 14, 2012

DianaSelene said:
Again, It doesn't matter to me if you disagree

Clearly it does.

V/T would care less what you or I think as long as they get medals.

I'm sure they wouldn't, but that doesn't seem to the point of the OP's question.

ImaginaryPogue said:
Wait, really? I mean, I agree with you that S/S are the better couple, but give credit where credit is due, at least, mousepotato.

I do give credit, The question was: Volosozhar/Trankov or Savchenko/Szolkovy? Whom do you prefer and why? I answered the question with my opinion just as everyone else has and I seemed to have backed mine up with a ton of reasons as to why I feel that way and what might change my mind, mostly better choreography.

Maybe others should give S/S just as much credit as they think I should give V/T? :think: :think: :think:

DianaSelene · Jan 14, 2012

Everyone else gives credit to S/S as well. I just as you have also gave reasons why I prefer V/T over S/S and I would add now what would change my mind- better lines, smoothness, more emotion, and consistency in elements. That is it. I have nothing else to say.

bekalc · Jan 15, 2012

StellaCampo said:
That said, I have more sympathy for S/S. Their spirit of experiment. Also the fact that, when S/S teamed up, they didn't know how far they could go; it was a gamble for both of them. V/T, on the other hand, is more of a business deal with ample due diligence, with a lot of official help in terms of relocation etc.

I kind of disagree here a bit. While V/T looked great on paper, whether or not they'd actually "fit together" was a bit of gamble. Maxim (I think especially) was leaving a very promising partnership. I actually DO think that M/T would have ended up on the World podium and frankly Olympic podium in Sochi. Maria was getting more and more consistent, and they had some very good qualities. I don't feel the same about V/M.

And as for Aliona/Robin. If I remember correctly from the very beginning the German fed was very much was excited about the idea of getting Aliona.. She was a world Junior Champion and considered a HUGE talent.. Any fed would have wanted her. Aliona had already seen Robin skate (and Robin was a German National Champion with his previous partner) at Junior Worlds, when she had agreed to pair with him.

Just like the Russians gave Tatiana the best male partner they had, the Germans pretty much gave Aliona the best male partner they had. Aliona wouldn't have moved to an entire different country at such a young age, if she didn't think she had a shot at being very successful with Robin. And they both climbed the ranks very quickly. They won German nationals their first year, and placed 6th at their first worlds (and I believe many felt they deserved better than 6th)

As for their second year V/T should have better choregraphy. It takes time for teams to gell even if they were successful with others. By their second year, Aliona and Robin were only doing double twists, double axel throws...If by Sochi or next year V/T don't have harder choregraphy than we will talk.

Pikachuusb · Jan 15, 2012

I happen to love both teams. As of now I prefer S/S and have for years. I love the creativity, lifts & throws from them. But there is a definate wow factor from V/T that caught my attention from the beginning.

When the pairing of V/T was in the works I was torn. I knew it needed to happen as I enjoyed Tatiana and thought Stanislav Morozov was dreadful. I also enjoyed Maxim, but thought Maria was icey and not on par with him. I knew the two them teaming up would be good & planned on not liking them because they were competition for my favorites. I know its lame, but like any sports fan, I want MY favorite teams/skaters to win. The 1st time we saw V/T skate, my boyfriend starting laughing. I asked him why he was laughing and he replied,"you soo want to hate them, but I can already tell they are everything you like, you are soo going to love this team."

and he was right

StellaCampo · Jan 15, 2012

bekalc said:
I kind of disagree here a bit. While V/T looked great on paper, whether or not they'd actually "fit together" was a bit of gamble. Maxim (I think especially) was leaving a very promising partnership. I actually DO think that M/T would have ended up on the World podium and frankly Olympic podium in Sochi. Maria was getting more and more consistent, and they had some very good qualities. I don't feel the same about V/M.

And as for Aliona/Robin. If I remember correctly from the very beginning the German fed was very much was excited about the idea of getting Aliona.. She was a world Junior Champion and considered a HUGE talent.. Any fed would have wanted her. Aliona had already seen Robin skate (and Robin was a German National Champion with his previous partner) at Junior Worlds, when she had agreed to pair with him.

What you say here is very interesting. Regarding "I don't feel the same about V/M." Do you mean V/T? I myself have been scratching my head over the question of "is Tatiana so much better than Maria?" Admittedly, Maria's jumps weren't consistent and her twist not as high as Tatiana's, but M/T were a beautiful pair.

I did not have the knowledge you have about how S/S teamed up. So both S/S and V/T went through a similar process.

Volosozhar/Trankov or Savchenko/Szolkovy? Whom do you prefer and why?

Big Deal

DianaSelene

mousepotato

DianaSelene

mousepotato

bsfan

DianaSelene

ImaginaryPogue

DianaSelene

mousepotato

DianaSelene

mousepotato

DianaSelene

ImaginaryPogue

Olympia

mousepotato

DianaSelene

bekalc

Pikachuusb

StellaCampo

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