GPF Free Dance, Sun. 12/11 at 1:50 pm EST | Page 5 | Golden Skate

GPF Free Dance, Sun. 12/11 at 1:50 pm EST

jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Robotic? Actually, I couldn't disagree with this more--and for a specific reason: Charlie is finally looking like he's relaxed out there. There isn't the gung-ho intensity of previous years. It's particularly noticeable in the SD. Hard to do when you're working with as much power and speed as he generates, but I am really seeing a significant difference this year. In an odd way, I think that tango did HIM a world of good. A bit of a paradox, perhaps, but there it is.

Of course, I now expect the Voir fan base to come thundering down on my head, particularly when I add this: Voir are marvelous, marvelous performers, but I don't see them getting *better.* And I do think Marlie are. And that may account for the placements this year.

Those are both very astute observations. The tango FD forced him to excercise more restraint yet maintain the speed and power. Meryl by contrast has developed into more of a standout performer in all of their dances rather than being overshadowed by Charlie's energy.

I do feel V/M had more of the sustained attack they have been missing of late. However, I think they have more to give.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
From what I could see of it, at least two of V&M's lifts were a bit awkward in the execution.

I wonder whether D&W were a step careful, but I'm not at all sure and need to see it on the big screen without screen freezes to know.
 

samba

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
I just can't feel the emotions from D/W, no matter how good the skate is. Is this what we want the ice dance to become? Emotionless circus?

Totally agree, this is what I meant "robotic". No emotion, no connection, just the speed and at times, sloppy and rough. V/M were able to draw audience into it and bring more emotion on the ice. They are more story teller. This is pure art..which makes ice dance different from other disciplines.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
For protocol mavens, V&M gave away the FD when they choreographed this dance. They picked the 3 lift option rather than the 4 lift option. Although the total base values are the same, an extended lift plus 2 short lifts has a maximum GOE of 5.5. 4 short lifts have a maximum GOE of 6. Net, 0.5 thrown away. V&M lost the FD by .05.

I need to see the US Sports broadcast this afternoon to see the dances without screen freezes to comment at all knowledgeably though.

Not true. That was the case last year, but they changed the rules, according to document 1670, which states for combination lifts:

The Base Values of the first two executed Short Lifts in a Combination Lift will be added
and one GOE (the same as for Serpentine Lift and Reverse Rotational Lift) will be
applied to the entire Combination Lift.
The GOEs of a Serpentine or Rev.Rot lift are 1/2/3, accordng to the same document

However, if what you say is true, than the blame lies with the choreographer - Marina Zoueva.
 

veravina

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
I watched both programs on the Quebec CBC so I turned the sound off. V&M presented a beautifully smooth and effortless program, but it appeared a little slow. D&W were also flawless, but seemed slower and a little choppy - couple of wonderful hi-lights though. Given that the latter are the current WCs I was actually expecting them to come in with a higher mark than they did just because that's the usual for the Ice Dance leaders. If they were unhappy with the marks that could be why. I've wondered all season where V&M could go with FF and I sort of think Marina's choreography is letting them down because it doesn't have those hi-lights -although those last two lifts are spectacular. For the record I don't care for either of the top two FDs. I think both teams are better than their material. I took Scott's remark about not understanding the marks to mean that the FD just isn't cutting it with the judges - nothing to do with their skating of it or of D&W's performance either. So what should they do? Push through the season with a little tinkering and make it 'look' more difficult or start afresh?
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Link to article with some comments from V/M

"It's a piss-off," Moir said. "Sorry, that's as blunt as I can be. We're not happy, we felt like we laid down a good skate and in our opinions a good enough skate to win and obviously we're missing something.

"It's tough to swallow, especially when Tessa and I have had probably our best fall to date and this is the best start of a season that we've had. It was a little easier to swallow when we weren't doing the training or Tessa was in pain, but now that everything's a go, it's a bitter pill to swallow."

"There won't be any problem with motivation for the rest of the year," Moir said. "It's bulletin board material now.

"We wanted to win our first Grand Prix Final in Canada and in Quebec City and to not accomplish that is rubbing a little bitter. As you can tell."

"It's tough to get beat artistically when we feel we're the best artistic ice dance team in the last five years," Moir said.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I don't know. Honestly, I think V/M are in between a rock and a hard place here.

Anyway, saw W/P's dance. I cannot believe the improvement they made this year.

I wonder if Russia's gonna lose that third spot for 2013 Worlds. C/L can beat I/K and R/T (have this season) and B/S can't crack the top five, they might just miss that magic number.
 

MrScroogeMcDuck

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Excellent job by both. I think D/W deserved to win, but V/M were very close. This is a nice rivalry.
 
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kosjenka

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
The exits from the lifts of V&M were not smooth. A little awkward. Like they lack polish. I guess that could have cost them in GOE.
Do you think V&M may change their choreography to fit 4 lifts?
I am not sure they would be up for that ...
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Hmm. Personally I think it's tacky to complain in public. Especially when you lost to your friends and training mates, and you fell in the SP.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Trouble in paradise. Wish I could have been at the press conference. According to Lynn Rutherford at Icenetwork, Charlie said, "If I have to spin until I lift off the ice (in the rotational lift) then that's what I will do." This was in reference to his goal of getting all +3 GOEs. I think they did get all +3 GOEs for the ballerina rotational lift. Then we hear of Moir's expletive over losing the FD on the PC scores. It will be an interesting rest of the season.
 

apple123

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Hmm. Personally I think it's tacky to complain in public. Especially when you lost to your friends and training mates, and you fell in the SP.

To me it's not a complain, it's the truth! And they have held it back at last year WC. Enough s enough. Maybe Scott should play the game and avoid provoking the judges. But Scott is who he is, a guy who wears his heart on his sleeve, a guy who roars after winning his OGM, a guy who dare to call it out! I'm pround!
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
To me it's not a complain, it's the truth! And they have held it back at last year WC. Enough s enough. Maybe Scott should play the game and avoid provoking the judges. But Scott is who he is, a guy who wears his heart on his sleeve, a guy who roars after winning his OGM, a guy who dare to call it out! I'm pround!

No, it's called arrogance and poor sportsmanship.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Hmm. Personally I think it's tacky to complain in public. Especially when you lost to your friends and training mates, and you fell in the SP.

.... You know, I recall in the run-up to the Olympic Games Scott was asked how it was training alongisde a rival and Scott said something along the lines of it's great - "training alongside the second best team in the world" (I might be paraphrasing, but he specifically said second best team in the world). So Scott's never one to really mince words about how he feels about his ability and where he feels he and Tessa are in the pantheon. It bugged me more then (specifically, why did he have to say second best. Wouldn't it have been classier to say "one of the best"). I do think that the five point gap was too much to bridge, obviously, but it's clearly the PCS-loss in the FD that bugs him. And doris' comment helps if you want to go all conspiracy.

One thing I will say is that the stuff that D/W should win in - Linking Footwork/Movement - is the biggest componenet after factoring (1.75).

Trouble in paradise. Wish I could have been at the press conference. According to Lynn Rutherford at Icenetwork, Charlie said, "If I have to spin until I lift off the ice (in the rotational lift) then that's what I will do." This was in reference to his goal of getting all +3 GOEs. I think they did get all +3 GOEs for the ballerina rotational lift. Then we hear of Moir's expletive over losing the FD on the PC scores. It will be an interesting rest of the season.

They did, and it was definitely deserved. The rotational lift is probably my favourite element from these two ever. It's one of those lifts where you go "How? What? How?"
 
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