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Thread: GPF Free Dance, Sun. 12/11 at 1:50 pm EST

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    It's hard when Olympic champions continue skating, because they feel that they should always be at the top of the heap, but other skaters may be ready to challenge them.
    A good observation. The Protpopovs had to deal with the rise of challengers at home in both Rodnina and Ulanov and Moskvina and Mishin. Suddenly in the course of one season, they were behind two teams of their own countrymen, in part because technical standards rapidly changed to emphasize more difficulty. They stayed in for a bit longer, but eventually defected and sought more freedom. Similarly, Linichuk and Karponosov had a rather rapid rise and fall as the world's best ice dancers. They were the third or second best Soviets for years and suddenly rose to world champs once Moiseeva and Minenkov's attempts at less traditional ice dance were rejected. They held on just long enough to win the Olympics a couple of years later with the more exciting Hungarians, Regoczy and Sallay hot on their tails. The lost world to them a month later then stayed in the next season only to fall behind Min and Mo and more importantly the rapidly rising upstart Torvill and Dean at Euros. That was the it. They retired, started a family and moved on.

    I'm not saying that will happen to V/M by any stretch. But as you say, it is very hard for reigning Olympic champs to hang on in the face of injury, boredom, rising challengers, or lucrative opportunities. Still I think they will find extra motivation from this loss. A similar loss for D/W in 2009 and also 2010 spurred them on to their current streak.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wafflecakes View Post
    Give me a break. What a bitter whiny comment.

    they had a FALL in the SD....no way he deserved to win and he makes himself a joke to pretend otherwise.
    Thanks a lot for your valuable input. I think Scott is talking about the FS. But who cares, D/W is so out of world, they are the star, the moon, the sun, the universe, lol. Nobody can beat them ever again. Your break is given now.

  3. #108
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    "It's tough to swallow, especially when Tessa and I have had probably our best fall to date and this is the best start of a season that we've had. It was a little easier to swallow when we weren't doing the training or Tessa was in pain, but now that everything's a go, it's a bitter pill to swallow."
    " best fall to date" was an unfortunate turn of phrase:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV7LcF10B1c#t=1m14s

    I'm sure Scott's frustration is enhanced because he is blaming himself. The fact is, they received near perfect scores in the FD. Unfortunately for V&M, so did Davis & White. The competition was lost for V&M in the SD.

    I wish reporters wouldn't go after these kids when they are hurting with these, "You lost, how are you feeling type of questions."

    jcoates you are right, as I remember it. When interviewed about the 2009 season later in the 2010 season, AFAIR, Charlie kept obsessing about missing the bronze by some tiny fraction of a point like .04 and said any time he thought of slacking off, that inspired him to work harder. This kind of loss can be motivating, and can lift a team to new heights.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-11-2011 at 08:44 PM.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    In tennis the stakes aren't quite as high, because there's no one lifetime championship. Nobody expects the same player to win Wimbledon every year, but when an OGM-winning skater doesn't continue to win everything in sight, it seems as though his/her excellence is diminishing somehow. Witness YuNa over in ladies' singles. this isn't necessarily true, of course, but it can make for an uncomfortable situation. No skater's ego is that solid! (Except for Plushy's, of course, which is one of the many things that makes him so refreshing.)

    In any other situation, the logical next step would be for one of the two couples to find another coach. But who'd want to leave Shpilband and Zoueva? So I hope all of them can smooth their feathers down and continue to skate at the top of their game. It's pure candy for us fans to have two such stupendous couples, but I hope they all continue to get complete creative satisfaction out of things as well.
    BTW Olympia, I forgot to mention that long winning streaks and their requisite expectation are actually more common in tennis than you would imagine. Sampras won Wimbledon 7 out of 8 straight years in the 90's an early 2000s. The one year he lost over that stretch was a massive shock. Once his reign ended, he never really recovered (other than his miraculous win at the 2002 US Open) and actually became really crabby for a few years with a huge chip on his shoulder. Wimby was his baby. He was synonymous with it. Once he lost his grip on that title, he lost much of his identity and veneer of invincibility. Similarly, Federer won Wimby 6 out of 7 straight years and since he has lost in the quarters the last two years to upstarts, his surly and less than gracious post-match reactions have been noteworthy. Additionally he won 4 straight US opens from 2004-2008. The last three years, he's lost heartbreaking five setters (once in the finals and twice in the semis after having led in each match and been up double match point in two of them). After each of those losses, he has been less than charitable and frankly dismissive of his conqueror as being lucky to have won. Navratilova reacted similarly to Graf knocking her off her perch at Wimbledon after winning it seven straight years. Evert was highly threatened by Tracy Austin beating her in 1979 after winning the US Open four straight years. Chris's win over Austin the next year in the semis on the way to reclaiming the title (a rarity of reconquering one's vanquisher among the examples I've mentioned) is still listed by her as one of the seminal moments in her career.

    Conversely, Nadal has been exceedingly gracious, introspective and humble in accepting the six consecutive losses (including his titles at Wimbledon and the US Open to Djokovic. He is real model or modesty and fine sportsmanship in that regard.

    Regarding your other point, I think V/M might benefit from working with at least a different choreographer (as might the other Canton teams if only for the sake of variety). As far as alternate coaches go, Zazoui might be a decent fit.

  5. #110
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    So I'm going to stay away from this back and forth with D/W and V/M and talk about the Shibs (as many of you know, I love these two!):

    Anyone have thoughts on their new costumes? I thought they worked quite well. I thought Alex looked a lot more mature with the pant/dress shirt/ suspenders combo. Sort of a Wall Street guy going for a night out on the town type thing. And I though Maia's dress had a more subtle mature look.

    As for the dance itself, I thought they made great strides there too. I noticed they changed some of the choreography and I think the overall presentation of the FD really benefited from it. I also think that they really improved most in the middle section. I think they really made the effort to take more time and it looked much more polished.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 12-11-2011 at 09:25 PM.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    So I'm going to stay away from this back and forth with D/W and V/M and talk about the Shibs (as many of you know, I love these two!):

    Anyone have thoughts on their new costumes? I thought they worked quite well. I thought Alex looked a lot more mature with the pant/dress shirt/ suspenders combo. Sort of a Wall Street guy going for a night out on the town type thing. And I though Maia's dress had a more subtle mature look.

    As for the dance itself, I thought they made great strides there too. I noticed they changed some of the choreography and I think the overall presentation of the FD really benefited from it. I also think that they really improved most in the middle section. I think they really made the effort to take more time and it looked much more polished.
    I agree with everything you said. I thought they looked very mature; loved their costumes too! They skated really well today too; I think they are improving with every competition they're in.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    So I'm going to stay away from this back and forth with D/W and V/M and talk about the Shibs (as many of you know, I love these two!):

    Anyone have thoughts on their new costumes? I thought they worked quite well. I thought Alex looked a lot more mature with the pant/dress shirt/ suspenders combo. Sort of a Wall Street guy going for a night out on the town type thing. And I though Maia's dress had a more subtle mature look.

    As for the dance itself, I thought they made great strides there too. I noticed they changed some of the choreography and I think the overall presentation of the FD really benefited from it. I also think that they really improved most in the middle section. I think they really made the effort to take more time and it looked much more polished.
    Their new costumes do indeed make them look more mature. More importantly, however, it makes them look like they are in sepia: THE CLASSIEST OF ALL THE PHOTO TONING METHODS.
    Disregarding my silliness, the new costumes do really help with the atmosphere of the program. It now seems reminiscent of another time, instead of one's childhood.
    Last edited by claphappy; 12-11-2011 at 09:49 PM.

  8. #113
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claphappy View Post
    Their new costumes do indeed make them look more mature. More importantly, however, it makes them look like they are in sepia: THE CLASSIEST OF ALL THE PHOTO TONING METHODS.
    Disregarding my silliness, the new costumes do really help with the atmosphere of the program. It now seems reminiscent of another time, instead of one's childhood.
    LOL. That is an interesting comparison. I guess when I think of such methods I think of those photo places at fairs where you dress up or whatever.

    But yes I agree that it helps improve the overall packaging of the program.

  9. #114
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    That's a great observation about sepia tone.

    I've got to say how impressed I was with W&P's FD. Despite the fact that I don't particularly like that song, it's evident that they, and especially Kaitlyn really connect with it. Usually she breaks character with a fist pump at the end of the program, but the emotion of it carried right on to the KnC this time. It was lovely to see the great ovation the audience gave them!

  10. #115
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    Well, well, well, the people have spoken. Not well for those who are slanted. The competition was over on the first day but today was a terrible and unfair result. Chemistry, Flow, Program development and even the technical score were clear to us novices as well as the experts. If you look back at my previous texts I said the U.S. has sold thier soul for this dance victory (never more evident than this free dance result) and get used to it, even with an unsteady floor it will continue. D/W skate amazing but really it could have been any piece of music in mostly waltz time, no connection no feeling. Oh well, we will continue to watch this unfair judging for this season and then hopefully slowly we will get a panel in place that watches and cares about the sport enough to judge, without pressure of how it will affect my countries other events....yup, remember no U.S. woman, man or pair are a threat so bank on this as the event to.....

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I've got to say how impressed I was with W&P's FD. Despite the fact that I don't particularly like that song, it's evident that they, and especially Kaitlyn really connect with it. Usually she breaks character with a fist pump at the end of the program, but the emotion of it carried right on to the KnC this time. It was lovely to see the great ovation the audience gave them!
    Agreed. They're really coming alive in a way that I wouldn't have wagered on.

  12. #117
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    "They're really coming alive in a way that I wouldn't have wagered on."
    YUP. And who knows, some day soon they will win over D/W

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoates View Post
    Honestly, skating fans can't have it both ways. Either this is a sport or it's not. Are V/M great champions? Obviously and terrific innovators for ice dance. Are they the most natural movers and performers in the event? Very likely. Are they entitled to win by default as a result of that greatness? Absolutely not. Cheer for your faves till the cows come home, but the actual competition must be judged with an unjaundiced eye. What is done on the day is what counts, not reputation. At least if this is to be a real sport. Please learn to issue some sort of constructive criticism which observes actual facts in the competition at hand rather than devolving into unquestioning fandom. It waters down any substantive arguments that you make.
    Hear, hear!
    Last edited by WeakAnkles; 12-12-2011 at 04:29 AM.

  14. #119
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    I can't help but think that both Teams are among the all time super dance couples. I would even rank V/M's Mahler's 5th as the all time greatest Skate Dance competitio/performance. Better than Torvahl/Dean, and those Russian winning teams. So much has to do with the era we are in.

    Also Jcoates remark that we are judging Sport (technical) and Performance (another type of judging). We have to admit that we are conflicting the winner. Why not award Best in Tech; Best in Performance; Best Overall?

  15. #120
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    Wow, wasn't ice dance in Canada? How come V&M didn't win!!!

    Congratulations to D&W!!! Love their FD!!!

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