2010 Oly Mens long judges.....

Mathman said:

My recollection was that they reduced the panel from 12 to 9 for all events except the Olympics at that time. Then at the last minute (in the fall of 2009) they came out with an executive order (there being no time to consult the whole council) to reduce the panel for the Olympics, too. The reason given was to save money and to make the Olympics like other events.

Reading between the lines, I wonder if these changes had to be negotiated with the IOC, which would account for the peculiar timing and for Cinquanta's backdooring of the full ISU congress.

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Huh. IOC politics. Thanks for clarifying.

Jaana said:

Yes, in the freeskate former Soviet Union countries were really well represented (CZE, SVK, UKR, SLO and RUS).

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Well, CZE and SVK (which were one country at the time) and SLO (part of Yugoslavia) were part could be considered Eastern Bloc countries or Soviet Bloc countries, but they were never part of the Soviet Union per se.

Former Yugoslovia wasn't even really in the Soviet Block because it broke away from that in the 50's I think and called itself NON-Aligned with India. It's skating culture wasn't even that aligned with the other eastern soviet skating cultures. And now in 2011 Slovenia is more Western European so closely aligned with Germany and being in the EU and everything.

The thread is weird because +1 point victory was not enough for Lysacek? Ridiculous. Any victory was ridiculous.

Sorry, Jaana...my apologies...but I really was interested if Finns were still atuned to the winter war and the continuation war, as they should be. I used to collect Finnish Military rifles and I know well how the Finns suffered at the brutality of the Russian high command and how well the Finns honored themselves despite the world ignoring their pleas and having to fight alone.

Mathman.....Hmmmmm. I guess I wasnt even considering the possibliltiy of all those comm block judges suddenly appearing to load the "jury". I was referring just to the scores themselves.....
Meaning that in the recent grand prix final or the Evan/Plushy shootout, the commentator's computor could easily through out the high and the low, then determine, through going through all the
possible combinations left, what the odds were that any skater/skaters would win vs the actual outcome.
As far as Elene, my point was that yes, she was and is a member of the former comm block, but in the post soviet world, the Russians decided to turn on her and GEO...meaning their influence is still great amoung
the former countries of the comm block....A good analogy would be if we decided to throw Scott Moir out of the country on some technicality in order to punish the Canadians.

CoyoteChris said:

....Meaning that in the recent grand prix final or the Evan/Plushy shootout, the commentator's computor could easily through out the high and the low, then determine, through going through all the possible combinations left, what the odds were that any skater/skaters would win vs the actual outcome....

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In the case of the 2010 Olympics, yes. But for the 2011 Grand Prix Final it is completely cut and dried. There is no random deletion of judges scores. Just throw out the high and low -- that's it. Average the remaining seven. The random draw is a thing of the past, and good riddance.

...throw Scott Moir out of the (U.S.) on some technicality in order to punish the Canadians.

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Well, those Canadians have to be punished somehow!

Whoopsy! No more "throw out two randomly"? Anyone know how to ammend Wiki?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISU_Judging_System

The page was ammended Dec9, 2011 and there is a link to the new 2010-2011 rules but I dont see the change to no throwouts.....
But then I have made mistakes before...anyone want to look at see? I will look again.
There is talk about invading Canada ......before they buy my tickets to 2013 worlds!

(BTW, from the new USFSA Media Guide, Int Jud system explanation, page 15)
"Each judge assigns a GOE for each element.....
Among the judges, the highest and lowest GOE is Dropped.
The remaining GOEs are averaged. This is called the "trimmed Mean"

To me, this is saying that the total marks from two judges are not dropped. Only the high and low GOE for each element.
This makes my code breaking even tougher....must apply for government grant.....

Here is the link to the current summary of rules on the ISU web site. (Scroll down to "judges.")

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/p...52094-169310-31825-132302-custom-item,00.html

If you want to find the original document where the change was approved, search under "ISU Communications" for the resolutions passed at the 2010 ISU Congress (held in May following the 2010 Olympics.)

The Wiki article contains a revision from the 2004 rules to the 2008 rules (at the very bottom). But, yeah, it needs to be revised to take into account the 2010 changes.

To me, this is saying that the total marks from two judges are not dropped. Only the high and low GOE for each element.

This makes my code breaking even tougher....must apply for government grant.....

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Correct. They eliminated the part about dropping all the scores from two randomly selected judges.

However, that makes the code breaking easier, not harder. If the goal is to figure out which judge gave which scores by analyzing a large data base over many competitions, just use all nine scores including the high and low. If you want to apply formulas that invoke the sample size, use n = 9, not n=7.

The trimmed mean is a hybrid sort of statistic, half-way between parametric and non-parametric. There is a lot of serious research on the characteristics of the sampling distribution for this statistic under various assumptions. :yes:

OK, wow...thanks a bunch! That link, your description and the media guide's 6 page description have helped me lots.
So, I am seeing a scientific TV special in Mathman's future....
"PBS's NOVA presents, IN THE EYES OF A MATHAMATICIAN....OR HOW THE RUSSIANS ALMOST STOLE GOLD AT VANCOUVER"
(Note to self....study marks for D/W vs V/M at same event....)

OK, here is the part I was refering to at the wiki link...

[edit] External links
ISU Judging System Summary
ISU Judging Systems
How the ISU Judging System Works
New Rules for the season 2010-2011

^ Yeah, the "New Rules" part is a little misleading. Communication 1611 is actually about changes in the base values for jumps, criteria for getting various levels on spins and step sequences, and new guidelines for scoring errors in GOE.

Jaana said:

It is a sign of good judging that Plushenko still did not win (it was a figure skating competition and not a quad or figure jumping competition, LOL).

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Maybe Evgeni didnt know it was a figure skating competition, maybe he thought it was a Dancing on Ice competition and did the rain dance instead. Next time send him a mail to tell him for what he competes.