Who can hold technical callers accountable?

skateflower said:

This is just crap from the usual CoP apologists. The truth is many many skaters and coaches have expressed their dismay over the levels the different technical controllers assigned to their elements. How the hell can you say with such certainty the technical controllers are indeed correct? By blindindly trust them?? Insanity and denial.

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This is just crap from the usual skater apologists. The truth is many judges and technical controllers have expressed their dismay over the lack of knowledge by the skaters and coaches over the levels that different technical controllers assigned to their elements. How the hell can you say with such certainty the skaters are indeed correct? By blindly trust them?? Insanity and denial.

The knife cuts both ways.

Just because a skater/coach choreographs a certain element to be a Level 4 doesn’t mean it will be executed that way even from competition to competition. If Trankov or Moser asked the TC and was given the reason why and he/she still doesn't understand, that it's not the TC's problem, it's the skaters/coach’s problem to fully understand. If they still have a problem with the level given, they can file a grievance with the ISU. As far as I know, that hasn't happened yet.

It seems it more dismay from an upset skater who lost a gold medal by 0.18 and can't reconcile why. Blindly trusting the skater as being right over a TC is just as insane.

jcoates said:

Some people are just difficult to please and like to complain about everything. Regardless of the system, they would find fault somewhere. Besides, conspiracy theories are never boring, despite being mostly useless and laughable.

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Exactly

I brought up Serena Williams and her debacle at the US Open this year in the Moir thread where she verbally berated the chair umpire in front of 20,000 screaming fans and her opponent merely for enforcing a long established rule of both behavior and play of which she should have been keenly aware. Her behavior makes Scott look like a choirboy. Nevertheless, the point is she ended up with egg on her face because of her continuing and unprofessional habit of assuming the rules don't apply to her because she is a star, a fan favorite and is clearly the best athlete in the game. It's part of her job to know the rules of the sport and how they may play out regardless of whether she is in the moment or not.

Maxim and all skaters need to seriously sit down and read the rule book and take the opportunity to actually use the constructive feedback they are currently privy to as a corrective tool. I know many here have no real memory of skating prior to 2002 or perhaps 1998, but I do. Then we have all the whining about COP being too numerical, too impersonal, to structured, giving too much power to the tech callers, etc., while fawningly looking back at 6.0 through rose colored glasses as if it was the good old days. Total BS. 6.0 was just a confusing as COP, even more vague, more susceptible to corruption and favoritism and just as badly understood by competitors and coaches alike.

Take the razor close ice dance event at the 1994 Euros. The quotes from Usova and Zhulin ad Torvill and Dean have stayed stuck in my head for the nearly 18 years since they were spoken.

"It was too algebraic," said Zhulin, who ended up settling for the bronze medal with Usova, behind Gritschuk and Platov.

"I'm still in shock," said Torvill.

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http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/22/s...erent-spins-on-european-comebacks.html?src=pm

Indeed, it is awkward to rate something like ice dancing as a sport when even the most sophisticated spectators cannot judge a winner from a loser.

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http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/24/sports/24iht-skate_8.html (So I guess, pairs is no longer a sport either since Maxim doesn't understand the scores he got. )

The British pair were seemingly resigned to the silver medal position behind Maya Usova and Alexandr Zhulin, the world champions, until the second Russian pairing of Oksana Gritschuk and Evgeny Platov sent the scores spinning like a railway station indicator by winning the free dance with an exuberant display which earned them three sixes for artistic impression.

Gritschuk and Platov moved up from third to second, with seven of the nine judges placing them first on the night. Torvill and Dean took the gold with six awards of second place or better as against the five which Usova and Zhulin gained. In fact, the Britons were proclaimed champions without one of the nine judges giving them first place in the free section; two had voted for Usova and Zhulin.

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A bemused Zhulin summed it up: 'My coaches said we were first, then silver and then bronze. This is a very algebra competition.'

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http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...se-in-the-european-championships-1408439.html

None of this is new people. It's not worth getting tied up in knots over. It's the nature of the sport, always has been. Regardless of what system is in place, there will always be room for controversy and lazy minded athletes and coaches who don't take the time to either understand the rules of competition or who can't reflect soberly on their own performance.

jcoates said:

I know many here have no real memory of skating prior to 2002 or perhaps 1998, but I do. .

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Criticizing COP doesn't mean idealization of 6.0 in the most cases. A person can see flaws in CoP and not want 6.0 to come back, it more about perfecting what we have now. Besides if 6.0 had the same the problems as COP what was the point of changing the system.
I honestly admit though that I don't know what can be down about that.

^Forgive me, but a great many people on this board and others have called for dumping COP and returning to 6.0 You may not be one of them, but that does not make the observation false.

mousepotato said:

It seems it more dismay from an upset skater who lost a gold medal by 0.18 and can't reconcile why. Blindly trusting the skater as being right over a TC is just as insane.

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Not to sound like a fan defending their favourites but if you read the whole interview they state in the very beginning that they lost because they made mistakes (at their jumps and the throw) and should've done better. So it's not like they think that they lost because of the judging. Besides thatMaxim not only say that they may be should get a higher level on their spin but also that their spin in the lp shouldn't have got the level 4 because they'd messed it up.

jcoates
Sorry, if I misunderstood you, I just haven't seen anybody advocating for the return of the 6.O system in the particular thread.

Perhaps not in this thread, but this has been an ongoing argument on this entire forum for years. I know you have just joined recently, so you may not be aware of that fact. If you are interested and have the time to spare, you might want to check out some of the older discussions. Many people have very entrenched positions on this subject which are not always informed by the greatest range of experience. That is what my post was referencing.

Trankov sounds like he's trying to understand the calls and a little frustrated because a few of them didn't make sense to him even after he tried to ask.

The person who started this thread sounds like they're trying to stir up trouble.

I not sure about the death spiral but for me it was quite obvious they made major mistake on the pair spin in the short program. And they only had a hic up at the end of the spin in the long program. I can see the panel given them the benifit of a doubt in the long and still approving a level 4. I not sure is Trakov really doesn't understand how levels work or he is just voicing out fustration in the i don't understand mode like most people do when they are emontionally upset.