- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
npa I think you're way out of line when it comes to dictating what one uses to create a list of favorites. Doris sticks up for your beloved pair quite a bit. chill.
Who are your all-time favorite ice dancers?
- Thread starter verte76
- Start date
When person understand something about ice dancing, she (he) will never made comments she didnt like music, wich someone use. I dont like fan what to show she is expert- thats all 
But i know, you hate V-M so if you couldnt find nothing in skating you soon will find something bad in there hairs, parfume, ect.
But i know, you hate V-M so if you couldnt find nothing in skating you soon will find something bad in there hairs, parfume, ect.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
npa - Doris is the reason I gave V-M another look. They aren't on my all time favorite list, but I do enjoy their skates this year (and last). Doris has NEVER claimed to be an ice dance expert. An uber fan of the sport, yes, but it's fellow posters on this board that claim she is an expert. And even "experts" are biased towards what they enjoy watching. Which is, once again, the whole basis of this thread. Why borrow trouble where there is none? No need to pick a fight on a "fun" thread.
Have you studied music? (Play an instrument? or . . . ?)
Sorry, dont wantt o read this anymore. I only want Doris will post all the same at FSU - thats all.
And yes - i know, if you want to show, you know something about ice dancing, you need to post "V-M aren't on my all time favorite list", "V-M are not my cup of tea" ect.)))))))))))))))))))))))
So like Doris need to turn TV off durinf V-M skting, i need to stop read all this forums
And yes - i know, if you want to show, you know something about ice dancing, you need to post "V-M aren't on my all time favorite list", "V-M are not my cup of tea" ect.
)))))))))))))))))))))))So like Doris need to turn TV off durinf V-M skting, i need to stop read all this forums
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
If not reading the forums helps your appreciation of V/M the way doris muting the program does, have at it.
My probleь in her argues - thats all. V-M didnt need Doris appreciation. T
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- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Her argument is as follows
1. V/M aren't one of her favourite teams ever.
2. Her criterion for favourite team ever involves how often she replays their programs, either in her head or on yotube, etc.
3. One of the reasons was that she doesn't care for the music they choose.
Now, I have to admit this comment
confuses me. But I've learned not to question doris when she does that.
1. V/M aren't one of her favourite teams ever.
2. Her criterion for favourite team ever involves how often she replays their programs, either in her head or on yotube, etc.
3. One of the reasons was that she doesn't care for the music they choose.
Now, I have to admit this comment
confuses me. But I've learned not to question doris when she does that.
She turn off her TV, when they skated and she want they will retier, because if after first GP she was sure D-W have masterpice, now she start nervouse a litle so without V-M all forums all time favoites D-W will be always first - untill OG 2022
))))))))))))))))))
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
If this some battle you have from FSU, keep it on FSU then.
I don't play an iinstrument, alas. But I kind of live with music, mostly classical and what gets called "the great American songbook"--Gershwin, Cole Porter, Jerome Kern, Irving Berlin, Richard Rodgers with Hart and later Hammerstein. I hang out with a lot of musicians. I try to listen to what they say. A guy whose other job is singing opera works at my office, for example. And I just listen to music all the time. I don't know if this makes me an expert, just an uber-fan, but it means I can pick up stuff in music that I don't yet know how to pick up in terms skating technique the way you, Doris, and the other mavens on this site can look at skating and distinguish subtleties. I'm getting better at that, I think. But I still feel like a skating ignoramus.
The reason I asked was because I was a skater before I was a fan. Not a very good skater, but there were a lot of basics that I just knew because I had done them, or seen more advanced skaters doing up close, several days a week, in contexts that break down the skills more than you're likely to see in the context of a freestyle program or free dance.
I wasn't a very good musician either, at the middle school level, and didn't really continue very far with music lessons. So I know more about the basics of music than someone who never studied it at all, but not nearly as much as sonmeone who has made music at a more advanced level or taken many music classes.
E.g., I can hear if there's a chord change in the music, but I can't tell just by hearing the relationship of the first chord to the second.
So maybe it's the same kind of appreciation -- we all bring different levels of knowledge to the way we watch, so we watch (or listen) for different kinds of details. What's second nature to me might not be for you, and vice versa.
I wasn't a very good musician either, at the middle school level, and didn't really continue very far with music lessons. So I know more about the basics of music than someone who never studied it at all, but not nearly as much as sonmeone who has made music at a more advanced level or taken many music classes.
E.g., I can hear if there's a chord change in the music, but I can't tell just by hearing the relationship of the first chord to the second.
So maybe it's the same kind of appreciation -- we all bring different levels of knowledge to the way we watch, so we watch (or listen) for different kinds of details. What's second nature to me might not be for you, and vice versa.
It's a wonderful advantage to have practiced something before becoming a fan! I envy you both in terms of music and skating. The people on here who are skaters or who have relatives who skate bring so much to their commentary.
My music ear is along the lines of being able to identify many pieces by composer within a few notes whether I know the specific piece or not (for instance, I can spot Sibelius or Rachmaninoff or Berlioz in short order because I know their distinctive "voices"). And I know and love a lot of composers of many eras and their works, which is why I just adore threads that ask us to come up with pieces that various skaters should perform to. (Lots of French music would work for Mao!) I've read up on my own about composers and their works, chiefly of the Romantic era. And music makes me feel more alive, which is I suppose the basic element of what makes me a music lover.
My music ear is along the lines of being able to identify many pieces by composer within a few notes whether I know the specific piece or not (for instance, I can spot Sibelius or Rachmaninoff or Berlioz in short order because I know their distinctive "voices"). And I know and love a lot of composers of many eras and their works, which is why I just adore threads that ask us to come up with pieces that various skaters should perform to. (Lots of French music would work for Mao!) I've read up on my own about composers and their works, chiefly of the Romantic era. And music makes me feel more alive, which is I suppose the basic element of what makes me a music lover.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
What's confusing about that? If they retired right now, then considering their body of work they would be placed on Doris' "upper list" but maybe not among her small handful of all-time personal favorites.
If they keep going and skate some more fine performances, possibly to music that Doris likes better, then they might well move up to a higher place on the list.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
I thought the upper list was filled with skaters who she could rewatch. She said that she can't rewatch most of V/M's programs due to their music. If they retired now, presumably they wouldn't have any more programs to skate and wouldn't be able to graduate to the upper list. I know I'm missing something, but not sure what.
Not listing couples that are still competing..
1.Grischuk/Platov
At first they didn't have a style sicne they were from completely different dance schools.Then they didn't have programs that suited them,but were they technical and fast,and powerful and with the most itnricate footwork.I absolutely loved their 1992 FD and I'm probably the only one that loved it.For me, they found their programs in 1997.Both their tango OD and their FD were just them.
2.Klimova/Ponomarenko
Of course the fact that I started watching ice dancing exactly in 1989 plays a significant role.For example I still consider as a 14 year old at the time the best FD event ever to be the 1990 Worlds FD.I found every program in the top 8 at least watchable,they were all so different,the choreography was meaningful and this is how I fell in love with the sport in the first place.Back in the day I didn't appreciate K/P that much,but their 1992 FD did it for me.I still consider it to be my favourite free dance.The tempo changes and the way they executed them were textbook perfection.Actually,my problem with them initially was exactly that.Their perfection.They seemed a bit cold to this ice dance rookie at first.
Honorable mentions:
Usova/Zhulin :because they made me discover Piazolla and I consider their 1990 FD one of the few watchable tangos on ice.(And because I had a crush on Sasha... lol)
Bestemjanova/Bukin and Torvil/Dean: I can't get into either of them.I like B/B for their speed and power ,I respect T/D but unfortunately I'm one of the few people that will never understand what was so special about them.Again I blame this to the fact that I didn't watch them when I should but got to know them in 1994.
The ones I watched much later but was completely mesmerized by them were Pakhomova/Gorshkov.Yes,I know that ice dancing was just an ugly duckling back then,but these two and she especially had something that grabbed your attention and you couldn't let go.Without being extra charismatic and in your face,without being over dramatic...
Extra honorable mentions :
Moiseeva/Minenkov up to 1979,the Duchesnays up to 1990,Anissina/Peizerat for that Romeo and his Juliet (best interpretation of the music for me)
Personal favourite for no particular reasons: Navka/Kostomarov .I think that they never had the programs they should have but I still loved them.
1.Grischuk/Platov
At first they didn't have a style sicne they were from completely different dance schools.Then they didn't have programs that suited them,but were they technical and fast,and powerful and with the most itnricate footwork.I absolutely loved their 1992 FD and I'm probably the only one that loved it.For me, they found their programs in 1997.Both their tango OD and their FD were just them.
2.Klimova/Ponomarenko
Of course the fact that I started watching ice dancing exactly in 1989 plays a significant role.For example I still consider as a 14 year old at the time the best FD event ever to be the 1990 Worlds FD.I found every program in the top 8 at least watchable,they were all so different,the choreography was meaningful and this is how I fell in love with the sport in the first place.Back in the day I didn't appreciate K/P that much,but their 1992 FD did it for me.I still consider it to be my favourite free dance.The tempo changes and the way they executed them were textbook perfection.Actually,my problem with them initially was exactly that.Their perfection.They seemed a bit cold to this ice dance rookie at first.
Honorable mentions:
Usova/Zhulin :because they made me discover Piazolla and I consider their 1990 FD one of the few watchable tangos on ice.(And because I had a crush on Sasha... lol)
Bestemjanova/Bukin and Torvil/Dean: I can't get into either of them.I like B/B for their speed and power ,I respect T/D but unfortunately I'm one of the few people that will never understand what was so special about them.Again I blame this to the fact that I didn't watch them when I should but got to know them in 1994.
The ones I watched much later but was completely mesmerized by them were Pakhomova/Gorshkov.Yes,I know that ice dancing was just an ugly duckling back then,but these two and she especially had something that grabbed your attention and you couldn't let go.Without being extra charismatic and in your face,without being over dramatic...
Extra honorable mentions :
Moiseeva/Minenkov up to 1979,the Duchesnays up to 1990,Anissina/Peizerat for that Romeo and his Juliet (best interpretation of the music for me)
Personal favourite for no particular reasons: Navka/Kostomarov .I think that they never had the programs they should have but I still loved them.
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- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
I dont watch often to understand which team is good and why but from the past Assinina /Peizerat because they were the ones I recognised when started watching.
I also always enjoyed the Kerrs for their coolness, Natalie/Fabian , Faela/Scali, Delobel/ Schoenfelder and Domnina/Shabalin, Denkova/Stavisky I ve only seen them in shows, mostly european teams probably because I have seen them live and won me over. I love this year Capelini/Lanote short program.
Lately I ve seen a documentary about Dark side of figure skating, and the drama with Usova, Zhulin, Pasha and Platov, and I believe I would have liked Pasha Platov if I had watched them in their time.
I also always enjoyed the Kerrs for their coolness, Natalie/Fabian , Faela/Scali, Delobel/ Schoenfelder and Domnina/Shabalin, Denkova/Stavisky I ve only seen them in shows, mostly european teams probably because I have seen them live and won me over. I love this year Capelini/Lanote short program.
Lately I ve seen a documentary about Dark side of figure skating, and the drama with Usova, Zhulin, Pasha and Platov, and I believe I would have liked Pasha Platov if I had watched them in their time.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2004
Delschoes
For me: Torvill & Dean, Klimova & Ponomarenko, and Delobel &Schoenfelder
The first two couples for all the reasons everyone already mentioned. DelSchoes for their beautiful and innovative programs. They were so underrated, imo. They had some of the most difficult programs during their era, and among the best technique. Frida, Carnival of Venice, Bonnie & Clyde, The Piano, The Great Gig in the Sky were wonderfully different free dances. They had great ODs as well, and were masters of the compulsory dances.
For me: Torvill & Dean, Klimova & Ponomarenko, and Delobel &Schoenfelder
The first two couples for all the reasons everyone already mentioned. DelSchoes for their beautiful and innovative programs. They were so underrated, imo. They had some of the most difficult programs during their era, and among the best technique. Frida, Carnival of Venice, Bonnie & Clyde, The Piano, The Great Gig in the Sky were wonderfully different free dances. They had great ODs as well, and were masters of the compulsory dances.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
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Mathman, You understood what I was getting at, exactly, about skaters on my intermediate list:
After skaters retire, even if I wasn't crazy about their music, but liked their skating and programs, I miss them! While they are still skating, I'll wait till their next performance, their next year's program, their summer ice exhibitions, etc.
However, once they are truly retired, the only "them" that is there to see is their existing body of work. And after I watch the one or two pieces of theirs I really, really like, I'll want more. And then I'll start playing over stuff where I didn't like the music that much but liked the skating.
In Tessa & Scott's case, their Charleston from 2009 and Farrucas from 2010, because Charleston has a really great lift in it, and the timing work to the miserable footstompings in Farrucas is just excellent! I'll want to see it again. But right now, they are still skating, and I have hopes that next time they show Funny Face, they will go with an instrumental version of S'Wonderful instead, and maybe this time I will be able to hear the "m" in dreams, and not hear kiddies singing about the "musical fruit" in my head. I'm not as anti bean as Pythagoras, but there it is.)
Olympia, I have no problem with Gershwin's music for S'Wonderful, it's the lyrics. And it's the same with Temptation in the SD-if I keep hearing "Everything is made from beans, the mental image I get is not of romance, but of elementary school jokes. In fact, to dispel the beans image, I looked up the lyrics to find out that "Everything is made from dreams," a much more satisfactory romantic image. Unfortunately, that's what I still hear when I listen to Krall. Beans. Maybe jeans. But not dreams. No M.
In fact, I wish they went back to no lyrics for ice dance, since it is so often the lyrics that spoil the piece for me-
the Martin Luther King speech in A&P's 2002 FD
The caterwauling Je t'aime in Umbrelllas
The beans
The stupid convention of sticking a s on a number of words because the lyricist can't get the meter to work out without the elision.
It's better if the lyrics are in a language I don't know-I would hate D&W's SD if they had JLo singing the English version. Fortunately, the Spanish version is just "aural shapes" to me. Thank you IP for the term.
After skaters retire, even if I wasn't crazy about their music, but liked their skating and programs, I miss them! While they are still skating, I'll wait till their next performance, their next year's program, their summer ice exhibitions, etc.
However, once they are truly retired, the only "them" that is there to see is their existing body of work. And after I watch the one or two pieces of theirs I really, really like, I'll want more. And then I'll start playing over stuff where I didn't like the music that much but liked the skating.
In Tessa & Scott's case, their Charleston from 2009 and Farrucas from 2010, because Charleston has a really great lift in it, and the timing work to the miserable footstompings in Farrucas is just excellent! I'll want to see it again. But right now, they are still skating, and I have hopes that next time they show Funny Face, they will go with an instrumental version of S'Wonderful instead, and maybe this time I will be able to hear the "m" in dreams, and not hear kiddies singing about the "musical fruit" in my head. I'm not as anti bean as Pythagoras, but there it is.)
Olympia, I have no problem with Gershwin's music for S'Wonderful, it's the lyrics. And it's the same with Temptation in the SD-if I keep hearing "Everything is made from beans, the mental image I get is not of romance, but of elementary school jokes. In fact, to dispel the beans image, I looked up the lyrics to find out that "Everything is made from dreams," a much more satisfactory romantic image. Unfortunately, that's what I still hear when I listen to Krall. Beans. Maybe jeans. But not dreams. No M.
In fact, I wish they went back to no lyrics for ice dance, since it is so often the lyrics that spoil the piece for me-
the Martin Luther King speech in A&P's 2002 FD
The caterwauling Je t'aime in Umbrelllas
The beans
The stupid convention of sticking a s on a number of words because the lyricist can't get the meter to work out without the elision.
It's better if the lyrics are in a language I don't know-I would hate D&W's SD if they had JLo singing the English version. Fortunately, the Spanish version is just "aural shapes" to me. Thank you IP for the term.
Aural shapes; I like that term! Yeah, sometimes I have to tune out the lyrics of something because the tune is what I want to absorb. Sometimes words can be limiting or even trite, while the tune resonates more widely and deeply. "I Will Wait for You" doesn't bother me as much as it does you, though, either in French or in English. Don't know why; maybe because it makes me think of the movie, which I loved.
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