Patrick Chan

dorispulaski · Dec 12, 2012

Um...It's called Zayaking because a rule was made against things she did when they were legal, and it is now called the Zayak rule. Calling the practice Zayaking is not a putdown to Elaine.

OTOH, calling out a guy still competing against you from time to time as the poster child of a bad habit (even if he is) is not very kind.

Would you feel differently if a skater called out Patrick as a poster child of a bad habit?

Which does cause me to ask, does Skate Canada force skaters to go through PR training for interviews the way USFS does?

fscric · Dec 12, 2012

SkateFiguring said:
I don't see how saying "pulling a Nobunari" is a big no-no except to those who already see most of what Patrick ever says as big no-no. Repeating a jump without combo is always referred to as "Zayaking" without anybody blinking an eye or thinking it's a great insult. Oda's frequent invalidation of his rule violating jumps is well known for years now and constantly referred to by fans, including his supporters like myself. I think Oda would take it as friendly teasing by one of his peers instead of disrespect. He must have heard "Pulling a Nobunari" a few times before by his friends and rivals.

Aren't we used to Patrick being held to a different standard! If it was another skater, the response would have been totally opposite.

Violet Bliss · Dec 12, 2012

I don't put down Oda for his frequent over content. I feel mostly frustration and sympathy for him. COP is complicated and difficult to comply with when perfect Plan A goes awry and Patrick is finding that out himself. Plan B is great with expected possible miss in Plan A but when it's a new mistake, you find out later about rules you never knew or prepared for before. Patrick is used to tacking on a 3T after a late jump when he misses it from an early combo. But this time he found out his second quad became a phantom combo, counted though not fully credited. So it's a lesson learned and likely more understanding and sympathy for Nobunari while laughing at himself. (If only he had done the 2T after a 4T instead of the 2A!)

BTW, while many blame his COP problems with not having Krall with him, I credit Lori Nichol with his COP savvy programs as well as perfect steps and rhythm in setting up his quads. She knew his SS so well that she could design optimal programs for him to perform effectively while showcasing his beautiful skating. Team Chan always informed Nichol ahead about any planned changes in jumps and had her redesign and incorporate any addition or change. Krall is a jump specialist Chan has made famous and she seemed to be able to calm him before his performance but she is not the all round miracle coach. More than Krall, Lori is the one I hope Patrick will return to for his Olympic program(s).

dorispulaski · Dec 12, 2012

I just hope Patrick gets everything sorted out soon & has the performance he would like to skate at Worlds.

fscric · Dec 12, 2012

SkateFiguring said:
Krall is a jump specialist Chan has made famous and she seemed to be able to calm him before his performance ...

So right, I remember Patrick saying this about Krall, but he seems to have lost it this season. I hope he'll be able to regain that composure before going on the ice and let us see what he's capable of at Worlds.

SGrand · Dec 12, 2012

He needs someone to play Old Maid with again......or something like that.

Aprilsnowy · Dec 12, 2012

skatingfan4ever said:
WARNING: This post is a mini rant. Here goes:

Okay, so from reading the GPF Mens FS thread, I thought Patrick totally bombed his FS. So, when I finally got to watch it, I was pleasantly surprised that he landed and rotated all of his jumps besides the first quad. His only mistakes were falling on the first quad, not doing a quad combo, and doing that silly double toe after the double axel. Jumps-wise, I think it was his best effort so far this season. Nobody skated lights out in the GPF FS, although Javier came the closest. I feel like Patrick is held to some kind of unspoken higher standard compared to the other skaters male skaters and people are VERY quick to criticize him. When Dai or Hanyu make mistakes, people say that they "had a rough night, but are improving," "they're still great skaters," etc. But, when Patrick makes mistakes, they say, "he needs a jump coach," "his career is in decline," "the judges are phasing him out," etc. What gives? Is Patrick not allowed to make mistakes like other skaters are? Just because he doesn't skate lights out doesn't mean he's a terrible skater (the same goes for Hanyu and Dai). I've almost decided to not read the competition threads anymore because that's where a lot of the negativity is, about all skaters. Why are some people so mean to Patrick and less so to others when they make mistakes? I'm not saying that everybody has to enjoy Patrick's skating like we do, but I do think people should stop being so hypercritical of everything he says and does. Regarding his media comments, I think he's one of the most refreshingly honest skaters out there today. He says what's on his mind. I have never taken that as him being egotistical. He just tends to be more blunt than other skaters. In fact, I personally think he's one of the more humble skaters who has a lot of perspective about what skating ultimately means to him. Could some of the misunderstandings be because he's trilingual? Sometimes during interviews, it sounds like he has to work really hard to figure out how to say what he wants to say. Sometimes multilingual people find themselves wanting to mix languages. I could be totally wrong, but it's just something I thought about.

I'm just super frustrated that Patrick does not have more respect among fans for the mind-blowing things he does on the ice. Respecting a skater's talent doesn't mean you have to love their skating. Is it that hard to be nice?

ITA

Perhaps years later, people will realize and regret there's no skater who has superb skating skill as much as Patrick anymore?

What I’m more worried is whether or not the scoring will be fair at Worlds and Olympics. Like I said in the men’s LP thread, we’ve seen some skaters who routinely under-rotate some of their jumps but are not called and they get gifted in GOEs. Plus, some skaters had no steps preceding 4t or break between the steps and 4t in the SP but did not get -3 or -1 GOE. This is unfair to other skaters like Patrick who are challenging themselves technically, as we know it’s harder to fully rotate the jumps and having steps before the jumps makes it more difficult to land your jumps. If the current scoring trend continues, then Patrick will be at a disadvantage because skaters who violate the rule are not punished and skaters like Patrick who execute elements well are not rewarded.

I also agree with lakeside.
Judges, who are always faultfinding at ladies' competitions, are somehow generous to some skater's under-rotations and no steps preceding a 4T.

spikydurian · Dec 13, 2012

SGrand said:
He needs someone to play Old Maid with again......or something like that.

Good idea, SGrand.:agree:

Skatefiguring said:
Lori is the one I hope Patrick will return to for his Olympic program(s).

I am secretly hoping Lori will create something similar to Exilados for Patrick for one of his programs for Sochi 2014. Magnificent footwork. If he does retire after Sochi, I want to see his brilliant footwork one more time.

Violet Bliss · Dec 13, 2012

Many choreographers can create beautiful programs but Lori creates winning programs. Patrick may explore different aspects of skating, but the Olympics is about winning.

SGrand · Dec 13, 2012

SkateFiguring said:
Many choreographers can create beautiful programs but Lori creates winning programs. Patrick may explore different aspects of skating, but the Olympics is about winning.

Agree. This year is about exploration: trying new things and expanding and growing in areas that HE (and his detractors) feel need work. I like that and I see the his progress. This is also the season to get rid of any mental 'kinks' that he may be experiencing. Going back to Lori for 1 or 2 programs in the Oly year would be great, I think he has learned (and is still learning) quite a bit this year with regards to his situation. My hope is that these new programs by David and Jeff allow him to grow and add more to his arsenal if he goes back to Lori. I'd also like to see him up his tech content with regards to jumps and spins which I think is possible after he feels he's achieved more on the artistic level.
I'm interested and very excited for Nationals.........I wonder if he'll try any new quads or if he'll wait until next season? Or maybe never.......who knows?

crosses9 · Dec 13, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLkBdFJ6MyE&list=UUEyd0dP_Pvpl1k45InGNtPQ&index=1
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkoguvIu5lM&list=UUEyd0dP_Pvpl1k45InGNtPQ&index=4
Above two links, you can watch the different between Patrick Chan and Javier fernandez, in skating skill, speed, ice coverage, body movement. I don't think Chan rob the bronze medal.

emdee · Dec 13, 2012

My question is... will Lori take him back?

starryxskies · Dec 13, 2012

Did Lori and Christy come in a package?

skatinginbc · Dec 13, 2012

crosses9 said:
I don't think Chan rob the bronze medal.

No, he didn't. I prefer a well-balanced program. Fernandez is not well-balanced in my mind. There is a huge gap between his jumping abilities and skating abilities. If we use a scoring system that emphasizes balance among skills (e.g., Total Score = TES × PCS), the gap between the two skaters will be great enough to tell you that Chan's 0.04 win was not because of "luck".

Violet Bliss · Dec 13, 2012

I've always liked Fernandez, even before he broke out to be a top contender. He has a lot of charm and personality on ice but he hasn't explored beyond portrayal of iconic characters who are almost caricatures. Patrick, OTOH, has expressed his artistry in various ways: to pure music, about passion (POTO) and fun and young love (Take 5), and story telling such as La Boheme. Compared to Aranjuez, La Boheme is easier to appreciate and enjoy as it portrays different emotions in various stages of a story. Patrick's Aranjuez, however, is ethereal and spiritual, expressing with skating the evolution of a mind. I wonder who else has the skills and artistry for such a program? It's a masterpiece by Lori and Patrick.

Lori is a champions' choreographer for good reasons. She really works with each skater to optimally utilize their skills and unique performance qualities to create a program they can excel in with the most ease. She is a proven champion maker.

starryxskies said:
Did Lori and Christy come in a package?

Lori had been with Patrick since he was very young, described as his mother on ice. She is a certified coach and did a lot more than choreographing for him. When Krall took over from Law, she and Lori were co-coaches for Patrick, taking care of technical and artistic side of his skating. But Lori started keeping a low profile, not showing up in K&C, probably because of criticism about her influence in judging. I suppose Lori and Christy became a package politically when conflicts arose within Team Chan. But Lori and Patrick have a long history in their relationship beyond teaming up with Krall. It is a good thing that Patrick tries other choreographers in his growth, but for the Olympics, I hope he will be back with the champion maker, his long time friend and mentor, the one and only Lori Nichol.

emdee · Dec 13, 2012

SF ... I hope and pray that you are correct.
On another note... yeah I will see him skate tomorrow.

SGrand · Dec 13, 2012

Saw the show in Stratford tonight, was fun, I had never seen live FS before. Patrick performed his Kingdom Come and new "I Need A Dollar" ex, the one with the hat. He was great, but I honestly think he must be so tired, both physically and mentally, not to mention the jet lag! He just didn't seem as fast or skate as big, although maybe that has something to do with being in a smaller arena??? He still had his smiles though and I was so happy to see him skate! In fact, I have to say, seeing our 4 World Champions skating together (and alone) was just plain awesome, I'm so proud of all of them and it's amazing that they're all SO incredibly different with regards to their styles. Very impressive.
Honorable mention goes to Elvis, he skated to My Sharona and it was so much fun, it really took me back to when he used to compete, even though he wasn't the most artistic, he was powerful, and he still is. My mom was like: "he's still got it". He also did a more lyrical skate to a Christmas song that I should really remember, but for the life of me cannot. It was very nice, lots of breaks, but nice just the same.
And Kurt did Singing in the Rain, he's just so damn cute and entertaining, I can't believe he still does this!!!
Oh, and of course Jeff did a fantastic job, seriously, I wish he still competed, I miss his artistry!

spikydurian · Dec 14, 2012

Here's the four World Champs.

Thanks SGrand for the update. Much appreciated. I would have love to be there to watch those great skaters ..everyone of them. And you are so right. They have different styles and are well known for certain characteristics: Browning for his personality and jumps, Elvis for his powerful skate and jumps, Buttle for his artistry, and Patrick for his bladework. I would have love to be able to watch these four male skaters. And I think Elvis seems to better looking now than when he was younger.

How was Christopher Dean's hat program? Did Patrick drop the hat? Hope not.. particularly if there's not enough practice following a hectic competition just a week earlier.

STARushka · Dec 14, 2012

Thanks SGrand for sharing ! I hope there will be video

Join Spikydurian's question - How was new EX ? Did you liked it ?

spikydurian · Dec 14, 2012

emdee said:
SF ... I hope and pray that you are correct.
On another note... yeah I will see him skate tomorrow.

Your report too, emdee.. please. Photos will be good, if any.

Lori watched Patrick grew up and I would love to believe that a relationship which span nearly or more than 10 years should be less brittle and more enduring. We cannot make sincere and lasting relationships and friendships if we cannot appreciate the goodness in each other whilst accepting the shortfall that comes with human nature. I remember Patrick saying that 'Lori and him are still friends' ..(something to this effect). It was part of the interview at the Skate Canada training camp recently. I do not know why he said that ..maybe someone posed him a question in relation to Lori.

And I agree with you, SF, that the next season is very crucial to preparing for Sochi 2014. PJ Kwong's recent article emphasized the need to be well prepared, and I hope Patrick knows that he cannot mug around any more if he seriously want to medal in Sochi. I am still dreaming of another killer foot/blade work skate from Patrick, his signature skill IMO.

Patrick Chan

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