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Thread: Patrick Chan

  1. #1696
    “Our blade takes us in the most amazing places.” skatingfan4ever's Avatar
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    WARNING: This post is a mini rant. Here goes:

    Okay, so from reading the GPF Mens FS thread, I thought Patrick totally bombed his FS. So, when I finally got to watch it, I was pleasantly surprised that he landed and rotated all of his jumps besides the first quad. His only mistakes were falling on the first quad, not doing a quad combo, and doing that silly double toe after the double axel. Jumps-wise, I think it was his best effort so far this season. Nobody skated lights out in the GPF FS, although Javier came the closest. I feel like Patrick is held to some kind of unspoken higher standard compared to the other skaters male skaters and people are VERY quick to criticize him. When Dai or Hanyu make mistakes, people say that they "had a rough night, but are improving," "they're still great skaters," etc. But, when Patrick makes mistakes, they say, "he needs a jump coach," "his career is in decline," "the judges are phasing him out," etc. What gives? Is Patrick not allowed to make mistakes like other skaters are? Just because he doesn't skate lights out doesn't mean he's a terrible skater (the same goes for Hanyu and Dai). I've almost decided to not read the competition threads anymore because that's where a lot of the negativity is, about all skaters. Why are some people so mean to Patrick and less so to others when they make mistakes? I'm not saying that everybody has to enjoy Patrick's skating like we do, but I do think people should stop being so hypercritical of everything he says and does. Regarding his media comments, I think he's one of the most refreshingly honest skaters out there today. He says what's on his mind. I have never taken that as him being egotistical. He just tends to be more blunt than other skaters. In fact, I personally think he's one of the more humble skaters who has a lot of perspective about what skating ultimately means to him. Could some of the misunderstandings be because he's trilingual? Sometimes during interviews, it sounds like he has to work really hard to figure out how to say what he wants to say. Sometimes multilingual people find themselves wanting to mix languages. I could be totally wrong, but it's just something I thought about.

    I'm just super frustrated that Patrick does not have more respect among fans for the mind-blowing things he does on the ice. Respecting a skater's talent doesn't mean you have to love their skating. Is it that hard to be nice?

  2. #1697
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan4ever View Post
    Okay, so from reading the GPF Mens FS thread, I thought Patrick totally bombed his FS. So, when I finally got to watch it, I was pleasantly surprised that he landed and rotated all of his jumps besides the first quad. His only mistakes were falling on the first quad, not doing a quad combo, and doing that silly double toe after the double axel. Jumps-wise, I think it was his best effort so far this season. Nobody skated lights out in the GPF FS, although Javier came the closest.
    I am making a rare appearance on the Patrick Chan thread not because I have suddenly become a major fan (though I do approve of his SP) but because this struck me as a strange comment. Javi became just the fifth skater to do three quads in a program (all of them with +GOE) and the first to accomplish this since 2006. I believe he is also the first to do two 4Ss in a program - the second one in the second half! He got a massive TES and I am pretty sure that is the highest BV I have ever seen, the best score ever by a European skater in an LP, and one of the highest ever, period. How is that not skating lights out? And I'm not even a huge fan of his!

    This has nothing to do with your points about Chan. I have no opinion on that, other than to say that I don't think anyone should get top marks for a performance with multiple errors, regardless of who that skater is, from what country and in what discipline. I do think a fair number of people who commented on Chan's coaching situation did so based on genuine concern for his ability to remain competitive technically without a skating coach.

  3. #1698
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan4ever View Post
    Okay, so from reading the GPF Mens FS thread, I thought Patrick totally bombed his FS. So, when I finally got to watch it, I was pleasantly surprised that he landed and rotated all of his jumps besides the first quad. His only mistakes were falling on the first quad, not doing a quad combo, and doing that silly double toe after the double axel. Jumps-wise, I think it was his best effort so far this season. Nobody skated lights out in the GPF FS, although Javier came the closest…… Why are some people so mean to Patrick and less so to others when they make mistakes? I'm not saying that everybody has to enjoy Patrick's skating like we do, but I do think people should stop being so hypercritical of everything he says and does.
    I agree that Patrick’s LP wasn’t that bad jump-wise. It was better than Takahashi’s for example. Patrick zayaked but he still landed and FULLY ROTATED his jumps! I’m not worried about Patrick because he won’t zayak next time. Like I said in the men’s LP thread, he’s capable of scoring 100 in TES and 95 in PCS when he skates super cleanly. I wish that will happen at the Olympics.

    However, I disagree somewhat about Fernandez. Yes Fernandez landed most of his jumps, but the quality is also important IMO. The problem with Fernandez is that the quality of his jumps, except his nice 4S, is just so-so. Usually he does not get any GOEs higher than +1 except on his 4S. I like Patrick because when he’s on, the quality of his jumps is top-notch that no one else could match (except jump prodigies Plushenko and Yuzru). Plus, spins, skating skills and transitions are important too. Most skaters including Fernandez don’t have them either.

    What I’m more worried is whether or not the scoring will be fair at Worlds and Olympics. Like I said in the men’s LP thread, we’ve seen some skaters who routinely under-rotate some of their jumps but are not called and they get gifted in GOEs. Plus, some skaters had no steps preceding 4t or break between the steps and 4t in the SP but did not get -3 or -1 GOE. This is unfair to other skaters like Patrick who are challenging themselves technically, as we know it’s harder to fully rotate the jumps and having steps before the jumps makes it more difficult to land your jumps. If the current scoring trend continues, then Patrick will be at a disadvantage because skaters who violate the rule are not punished and skaters like Patrick who execute elements well are not rewarded.

  4. #1699
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan4ever View Post
    WARNING: This post is a mini rant....I think he's one of the most refreshingly honest skaters out there today. He says what's on his mind....I'm just super frustrated that Patrick does not have more respect among fans for the mind-blowing things he does on the ice. Respecting a skater's talent doesn't mean you have to love their skating. Is it that hard to be nice?
    WARNING: This post is a "refreshingly honest" response. Viewer discretion is advised.
    Yes, it is hard to be nice to someone you don't like. "I pulled a Nobunari" is a big no-no. As a fan of Chan's skating but not of his mouth, I find it difficult to balance my attitude toward him. To me, Chan's performances (SP + LP) were better than Fernandez's, but there is a secret voice back in my head hoping Fernandez had won the bronze.

  5. #1700
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    I don't see how saying "pulling a Nobunari" is a big no-no except to those who already see most of what Patrick ever says as big no-no. Repeating a jump without combo is always referred to as "Zayaking" without anybody blinking an eye or thinking it's a great insult. Oda's frequent invalidation of his rule violating jumps is well known for years now and constantly referred to by fans, including his supporters like myself. I think Oda would take it as friendly teasing by one of his peers instead of disrespect. He must have heard "Pulling a Nobunari" a few times before by his friends and rivals.

  6. #1701
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    Um...It's called Zayaking because a rule was made against things she did when they were legal, and it is now called the Zayak rule. Calling the practice Zayaking is not a putdown to Elaine.

    OTOH, calling out a guy still competing against you from time to time as the poster child of a bad habit (even if he is) is not very kind.

    Would you feel differently if a skater called out Patrick as a poster child of a bad habit?

    Which does cause me to ask, does Skate Canada force skaters to go through PR training for interviews the way USFS does?

  7. #1702
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    I don't see how saying "pulling a Nobunari" is a big no-no except to those who already see most of what Patrick ever says as big no-no. Repeating a jump without combo is always referred to as "Zayaking" without anybody blinking an eye or thinking it's a great insult. Oda's frequent invalidation of his rule violating jumps is well known for years now and constantly referred to by fans, including his supporters like myself. I think Oda would take it as friendly teasing by one of his peers instead of disrespect. He must have heard "Pulling a Nobunari" a few times before by his friends and rivals.
    Aren't we used to Patrick being held to a different standard! If it was another skater, the response would have been totally opposite.

  8. #1703
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    I don't put down Oda for his frequent over content. I feel mostly frustration and sympathy for him. COP is complicated and difficult to comply with when perfect Plan A goes awry and Patrick is finding that out himself. Plan B is great with expected possible miss in Plan A but when it's a new mistake, you find out later about rules you never knew or prepared for before. Patrick is used to tacking on a 3T after a late jump when he misses it from an early combo. But this time he found out his second quad became a phantom combo, counted though not fully credited. So it's a lesson learned and likely more understanding and sympathy for Nobunari while laughing at himself. (If only he had done the 2T after a 4T instead of the 2A!)

    BTW, while many blame his COP problems with not having Krall with him, I credit Lori Nichol with his COP savvy programs as well as perfect steps and rhythm in setting up his quads. She knew his SS so well that she could design optimal programs for him to perform effectively while showcasing his beautiful skating. Team Chan always informed Nichol ahead about any planned changes in jumps and had her redesign and incorporate any addition or change. Krall is a jump specialist Chan has made famous and she seemed to be able to calm him before his performance but she is not the all round miracle coach. More than Krall, Lori is the one I hope Patrick will return to for his Olympic program(s).

  9. #1704
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I just hope Patrick gets everything sorted out soon & has the performance he would like to skate at Worlds.

  10. #1705
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Krall is a jump specialist Chan has made famous and she seemed to be able to calm him before his performance ...
    So right, I remember Patrick saying this about Krall, but he seems to have lost it this season. I hope he'll be able to regain that composure before going on the ice and let us see what he's capable of at Worlds.

  11. #1706
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    He needs someone to play Old Maid with again......or something like that.

  12. #1707
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan4ever View Post
    WARNING: This post is a mini rant. Here goes:

    Okay, so from reading the GPF Mens FS thread, I thought Patrick totally bombed his FS. So, when I finally got to watch it, I was pleasantly surprised that he landed and rotated all of his jumps besides the first quad. His only mistakes were falling on the first quad, not doing a quad combo, and doing that silly double toe after the double axel. Jumps-wise, I think it was his best effort so far this season. Nobody skated lights out in the GPF FS, although Javier came the closest. I feel like Patrick is held to some kind of unspoken higher standard compared to the other skaters male skaters and people are VERY quick to criticize him. When Dai or Hanyu make mistakes, people say that they "had a rough night, but are improving," "they're still great skaters," etc. But, when Patrick makes mistakes, they say, "he needs a jump coach," "his career is in decline," "the judges are phasing him out," etc. What gives? Is Patrick not allowed to make mistakes like other skaters are? Just because he doesn't skate lights out doesn't mean he's a terrible skater (the same goes for Hanyu and Dai). I've almost decided to not read the competition threads anymore because that's where a lot of the negativity is, about all skaters. Why are some people so mean to Patrick and less so to others when they make mistakes? I'm not saying that everybody has to enjoy Patrick's skating like we do, but I do think people should stop being so hypercritical of everything he says and does. Regarding his media comments, I think he's one of the most refreshingly honest skaters out there today. He says what's on his mind. I have never taken that as him being egotistical. He just tends to be more blunt than other skaters. In fact, I personally think he's one of the more humble skaters who has a lot of perspective about what skating ultimately means to him. Could some of the misunderstandings be because he's trilingual? Sometimes during interviews, it sounds like he has to work really hard to figure out how to say what he wants to say. Sometimes multilingual people find themselves wanting to mix languages. I could be totally wrong, but it's just something I thought about.

    I'm just super frustrated that Patrick does not have more respect among fans for the mind-blowing things he does on the ice. Respecting a skater's talent doesn't mean you have to love their skating. Is it that hard to be nice?
    ITA
    Perhaps years later, people will realize and regret there's no skater who has superb skating skill as much as Patrick anymore?

    What I’m more worried is whether or not the scoring will be fair at Worlds and Olympics. Like I said in the men’s LP thread, we’ve seen some skaters who routinely under-rotate some of their jumps but are not called and they get gifted in GOEs. Plus, some skaters had no steps preceding 4t or break between the steps and 4t in the SP but did not get -3 or -1 GOE. This is unfair to other skaters like Patrick who are challenging themselves technically, as we know it’s harder to fully rotate the jumps and having steps before the jumps makes it more difficult to land your jumps. If the current scoring trend continues, then Patrick will be at a disadvantage because skaters who violate the rule are not punished and skaters like Patrick who execute elements well are not rewarded.
    I also agree with lakeside.
    Judges, who are always faultfinding at ladies' competitions, are somehow generous to some skater's under-rotations and no steps preceding a 4T.

  13. #1708
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGrand View Post
    He needs someone to play Old Maid with again......or something like that.
    Good idea, SGrand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skatefiguring
    Lori is the one I hope Patrick will return to for his Olympic program(s).
    I am secretly hoping Lori will create something similar to Exilados for Patrick for one of his programs for Sochi 2014. Magnificent footwork. If he does retire after Sochi, I want to see his brilliant footwork one more time.

  14. #1709
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    Many choreographers can create beautiful programs but Lori creates winning programs. Patrick may explore different aspects of skating, but the Olympics is about winning.

  15. #1710
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Many choreographers can create beautiful programs but Lori creates winning programs. Patrick may explore different aspects of skating, but the Olympics is about winning.
    Agree. This year is about exploration: trying new things and expanding and growing in areas that HE (and his detractors) feel need work. I like that and I see the his progress. This is also the season to get rid of any mental 'kinks' that he may be experiencing. Going back to Lori for 1 or 2 programs in the Oly year would be great, I think he has learned (and is still learning) quite a bit this year with regards to his situation. My hope is that these new programs by David and Jeff allow him to grow and add more to his arsenal if he goes back to Lori. I'd also like to see him up his tech content with regards to jumps and spins which I think is possible after he feels he's achieved more on the artistic level.
    I'm interested and very excited for Nationals.........I wonder if he'll try any new quads or if he'll wait until next season? Or maybe never.......who knows?

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