Patrick Chan

vivley · Nov 12, 2015

Yes, VB, I agree that it's all about quelling his anxiety so he can skate well.

I was just reading the Grand Prix Announcements for SC and TEB and it says he won $18,000 in prize money for winning first place (Section 13). I didn't know that participation in the exhibition was mandatory, or else $3,000 would be deducted from the prize money. Also, each time he won a gold medal, he was subjected to an anti-doping test right after the final free skate (Section 15). Everything is the same if he wins TEB.

ISU rules are strict! Right now Patrick is ranked 20th with 1940 points.

Violet Bliss · Nov 12, 2015

vivley said:
Yes, VB, I agree that it's all about quelling his anxiety so he can skate well.

I was just reading the Grand Prix Announcements for SC and TEB and it says he won $18,000 in prize money for winning first place (Section 13). I didn't know that participation in the exhibition was mandatory, or else $3,000 would be deducted from the prize money. Also, each time he won a gold medal, he was subjected to an anti-doping test right after the final free skate (Section 15). Everything is the same if he wins TEB.

ISU rules are strict! Right now Patrick is ranked 20th with 1940 points.

Figure Skating prize money is a laughable pittance, a tiny fragment of what popular sports pay. Yet it's one of the costliest to train for.

Due to his one year off the circuit, Patrick is now ranked quite low and he skates the SP in the first group. But then in the LP, he will most likely be the last one to skate.

TEB is not a place or event for him to get super anxious about. I only wonder if he would do 2 quads in the LP and how much his programs may be modified.

(The latest twist to diminish Patrick is that his programs are relatively simple and dumbed down. :laugh:

Yet his most intricate and difficult choreography didn't deserve consideration and extra credits before, just busy and lacking artistry. :rolleye:

)

I think he is easing himself into the competition mode. I'm most interested in watching his progress in this second event.

Have fun, Patrick!

4everchan · Nov 12, 2015

well… it was obvious from watching the training that Patrick was just going through the program without doing the elements fully… he even skipped some steps… but the 2A is so gorgeous that he seems right on in any case… I am not watching this forum for a couple days now as CBC will show skating on tv but not live… and I want to experience the nerves

i know… maybe i will change my mind and still check the protocols and scores before watching so i don't die from a heart attack

GO PATRICK <3

Violet Bliss said:
Ah, so you verified for me. So his practice TES is around 15?

calica · Nov 13, 2015

Despite new venue, Chan 'comfortable' at Bompard

http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2015/11/12/157156456/

Violet Bliss · Nov 13, 2015

calica said:
Despite new venue, Chan 'comfortable' at Bompard

http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2015/11/12/157156456/

Oooooh, he's more than "comfortable"! Great revelation of where he is at mentally. :yay:

And he's more comfortable and relaxed with the 4 seconds added to the SP. :yay:

And he has no more nemesis!

Thank you calica for bringing this.

vivley · Nov 13, 2015

Thanks, VB, for your previous reply to my post.

What a great article, Calica! Here are my favorite quotes:

If you break down just before the long program, everybody will tell you that you're dead -- forget it. I did the opposite. I broke down the barrier there. The fact is that it was Canada … There, I feel I have to be something I am not. I feel I have to look a certain way, I feel I have to be a certain way…and it translates onto the ice.

Good for him on breaking down that mental barrier! In Canada he felt more pressure to be a skating god rather than an athlete. So glad he found his comfort zone again.

But I could start all over with the (triple) axel, and that was a good thing... Now the axel is consistent, not only in competition, but also in practice.

Yay, no more nemesis! More 3As, please.

The connection I have with my music drives my movements more than my emotions. My expression comes across via my body.

Okay, who was it who said that Patrick expresses emotion through his body (instead of his face)? You were dead on!

Two quads and two axels will be the goal. Still, there is so much more to my skating than these jumps!

Totally agree!

I'm back in a different way. Sitting in the kiss and cry at Skate Canada, receiving my marks, I was genuinely happy to be there.

And we could tell, too! So happy for you, Patrick!

vivley · Nov 13, 2015

Video of TEB SP on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86zaKevrXzo

Er... what happened? I think they need to work on that SP some more...

Violet Bliss · Nov 13, 2015

vivley said:
Video of TEB SP on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86zaKevrXzo

Er... what happened? I think they need to work on that SP some more...

I love how Patrick and Kathy both laughed at his performance.

I'm as relaxed as they are. For those of you who aren't, don't forget to take a deep breath, and, ohmmmmmm.......

I guess Patrick would explain what happened when asked, but he will not be at the press conference. Maybe that's a good thing.

I think his 3A was affected by the quad combo attempt but have no idea what caused the quad to fail. 2/2 is a first for his Senior career. But he really picked himself up for the rest of the program and was in a good mood, smiling when he finished.

Interspectator speculated in the SP thread:

Interspectator said:
The guys all had to get as much a lead on Pat in the SP so that they would even stand a breath of a chance in the LP. Right now, Patrick could still overtake them all if he skates like he did in Canada.
No one is safe.

So I calculated:

If Patrick skates like SC, his total would be ~ 266.50. Add a few points if he does the 2nd quad.

Uno just did a PB, upping his SA score by 0.66. If he skates like his PB at SA, his total will be over 258.

Kovtun's PB LP was from this event last year, 166.24, which will give him TSS of 253.06 when added to his SP today.

Murakami's PB is 258.47 but he's already a couple of points lower in SP.

Ten PB LP score is 191.85, making a TSS of 271.95 when added to today's SP.

Of course, we have no idea how everyone will skate tomorrow.

Just stay happy, Patrick, even if it's Friday the 13th.

skatingfan4ever · Nov 13, 2015

vivley said:
Video of TEB SP on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86zaKevrXzo

Er... what happened? I think they need to work on that SP some more...

My immediate thoughts: At least he's still in the final group. I was nervous when I saw the combo (the first time Patrick has gotten an invalid element?!) that he would be further down in the standings. But hey, he got the axel (forward and hand down but otherwise okay). The Lutz was very nice. Patrick needs to find a way to breathe and be relaxed despite the up-tempo music. It's almost like he's so busy trying to keep up with the music that he loses track of other aspects of the program. He needs to skate this SP more like Steppin' Out. The movements are all there but everything feels rushed and Patrick doesn't seem comfortable with it yet. I hope he can move up enough to make the GPF. He's very comfortable with the LP so I'm not too worried. We'll see.

Side note: Patrick and Kathy are very talkative after his programs now. I hadn't noticed that before this season. Maybe it's because this is a new phase of Patrick's career. I like getting a little peak into their world. For all the talk that "Kathy isn't a real figure skating coach," she sure is acting like one!

skatingfan4ever · Nov 13, 2015

Violet Bliss said:
I love how Patrick and Kathy both laughed at his performance.

I'm as relaxed as they are. For those of you who aren't, don't forget to take a deep breath, and, ohmmmmmm.......

I guess Patrick would explain what happened when asked, but he will not be at the press conference. Maybe that's a good thing.

I think his 3A was affected by the quad combo attempt but have no idea what caused the quad to fail. 2/2 is a first for his Senior career. But he really picked himself up for the rest of the program and was in a good mood, smiling when he finished.

Interspectator speculated in the SP thread:

So I calculated:

If Patrick skates like SC, his total would be ~ 266.50. Add a few points if he does the 2nd quad.

Uno just did a PB, upping his SA score by 0.66. If he skates like his PB at SA, his total will be over 258.

Kovtun's PB LP was from this event last year, 166.24, which will give him TSS of 253.06 when added to his SP today.

Murakami's PB is 258.47 but he's already a couple of points lower in SP.

Ten PB LP score is 191.85, making a TSS of 271.95 when added to today's SP.

Of course, we have no idea how everyone will skate tomorrow.

Just stay happy, Patrick, even if it's Friday the 13th.

My previous post was written before I read VB's latest. Having read VB's latest, I feel much better already. :laugh:

I'm glad Patrick and Kathy had such a good attitude about it. Being so relaxed after mistakes seems relatively new for Patrick and it's a very good sign. He is learning indeed.

Violet Bliss · Nov 13, 2015

skatingfan4ever said:
My previous post was written before I read VB's latest. Having read VB's latest, I feel much better already. I'm glad Patrick and Kathy had such a good attitude about it. Being so relaxed after mistakes seems relatively new for Patrick and it's a very good sign. He is learning indeed.

Right away I compared his reaction to that of 2007 TEB when he was 16 and that fall from the camel spin really upset him. So much maturity now, with priorities and perspectives. :thumbsup:

Violet Bliss · Nov 13, 2015

vivley said:
Yay, no more nemesis! More 3As, please.

I wonder if it would be better if he does the 3A as the last jump in the SP, less pressed to put it in on a very tight schedule after the 4/3 big combo. Energy is not an issue in SP especially if he's relaxed and confident about the jump. Some bonus points is nice too.

Okay, who was it who said that Patrick expresses emotion through his body (instead of his face)? You were dead on!

Totally agree!

Me, me, me!

Heck, just watch practice videos and you can't see facial expressions. Only official camera shows expressions constantly.

And we could tell, too! So happy for you, Patrick!

I told you he was happy at the K&C!

I have to go rest my arm now after all that patting my own back.

Oh another thing I talked about a few years ago. I thought losing Lori as his choreographer was a bigger loss than Krall. Lori had known him and his skating so well that she designed the layout and the steps to bring out his best. She is good that way with all her skaters. There are reason why she's loved by skaters and has had so many winning choreographies. It has taken some time for Patrick and Wilson to gel and his choreos still cause jumping difficulties sometimes and need adjustments quite late.

skatingfan4ever · Nov 13, 2015

I just read the article that calica posted and have thoughts/questions about it as well.

1. I'm confused about what Patrick said about skating in Canada. Did it make things better or worse? He said, "The fact is that it was Canada, it was home, it was the volunteers. … There, I feel I have to be something I am not. I feel I have to look a certain way, I feel I have to be a certain way…and it translates onto the ice." If he feels like he has to be something he's not, then I guess part of him has never liked home ice. There are elipses, so who knows if he said clarifying words that have been taken out. First he mentions it was home and the volunteers (positively, I thought) and then the next sentence is about how in Canada he feels he has to be and look a certain way and be something he's not, which "translates onto the ice" (a negative sentiment). So which is it? Both?

2. I love what Patrick said about the purpose of show programs. SO MANY SKATERS don't seem to think like this nowadays:

I did not do many quads or triple axels over the last year. I'm not like [a lot of other skaters] who'll skate their whole programs with all their jumps in a show. To me, performing means focusing on the in-betweens. The audience does not come to see you skate the same program with different kinds of music. They want to see a different side of you. I like to explore outside of my comfort zone in a show: explore new kinds of music I would never skate to otherwise, explore different types of movement.

3. He hasn't done two 3A in the LP since 2010. It would be cool if it happens and I hope it does (maybe then people will quit harping on his lack of technical difficulty), but the most important thing is if he feels comfortable with it. Contrary to what some people may think, Patrick is not resting on his laurels.

4. As Patrick predicted, I didn't notice the changes in the SP at TEB at all. :laugh:

I just can't wait for a clean version of it.

5. Related to my second point, Patrick has more of an understanding of audience connection and choreography now, which is great:

Icenetwork: You also seem to be motivated by your music, more so than the past.

Chan: That may be due to the many shows I did last year. Feeling the audience much closer to the ice forces you to increase your connection. There was nothing worse than skating in a show without a connection. When the audience sees that you're comfortable and joyful, the show is a success. Doing this throughout one full season made this become more natural to me. That has become a part of me and who I am. I must say, also, that this new short program helps me a lot, too. The music has a voice, and the lyrics add more dynamics in the movement -- more energy. It provides some more material to express. I find it easier with words.

It may also be a result of the work I've been doing with David Wilson, my choreographer, over the last four years. We communicate easily now; we laugh, we're not stressed. We take our time to work. Ideas are flowing in a natural way. I can perform a given choreography, but I'm not a choreographer, and finding ideas is not my best quality. Still, when we are working together, I am able to have some ideas. It helps me, of course. Since I will have more expression, it will become more natural and organic.

Violet Bliss · Nov 13, 2015

skatingfan4ever, I think Patrick is a very grateful person appreciative of his supporters and fans. He is well aware of his parents' sacrifices, the Chinese communities fundraising efforts, the support and guidance from Skate Canada and the Canadian figure skating community, as well as fans who love him with pride. He talks about contributing and giving back to the sport, and he is diligent in giving back to the communities. His usual peak performances and joy are at the Nationals in front of home crowd with abundance of mutual affection. This gratitude however becomes a responsibility and burden on him to do well for his supporters, thus the sometime extreme anxieties at times of uncertainties, when he does not have the confidence to do well, especially since he always debuts his season at SC. Seeing the volunteers and other familiar faces especially reminds him of his gratitude and self-imposed obligations. So he becomes more stressed and less able to focus at times of major turning points such as his quad debut and his comeback debut this year. He wants too badly to not disappoint his supporters. Boitano helped him before because right away he understood the cause of Patrick's anxiety.

That's why it's important that he actually skates for himself when he's on competition ice. That's why I told him a few posts back that skating for himself is skating for us, if only he would read us.

I hope he knows that and be free. We'll all be happier.

vivley · Nov 13, 2015

Thanks everyone for your great comments! Patrick is like a very sensitive instrument. He said he could sense it when he's gained a couple of pounds. He could also sense immediately if a quad jump would be successful. Maybe that's why he popped his combination today - perhaps he could sense that he was off somehow.

VB - why did he lose Lori as his choreographer?

On a side note, don't you just love Google? Even though this article's title said:

"Patrick Chan Struggles in Trophée Eric Bompard short program",

in Google search it said:

"Patrick Chan tanks in Trophée Eric Bompard short program". Grrrr...

vivley · Nov 13, 2015

I also forgot to mention... Now the song "Mack the Knife" is stuck in my head, replaying over and over since I watched the SP. Arrrrggh....

Violet Bliss · Nov 13, 2015

vivley said:
Thanks everyone for your great comments! Patrick is like a very sensitive instrument. He said he could sense it when he's gained a couple of pounds. He could also sense immediately if a quad jump would be successful. Maybe that's why he popped his combination today - perhaps he could sense that he was off somehow.

The bodies of athletes in highly technical sports are like fine and sensitive instruments and these athletes are highly sensitive to their own bodies. A hang nail may concern them whereas in some other sports, an athlete is said to have "heart" when they ignore pain and injuries to continue to fight, sometimes literally, for victory. E.g. I think hockey players sometimes try to bleed harder to draw a penalty.

Popping a jump is automatic, the way the body says no. Patrick very seldom pops jumps. At SC his 4T was turned into a 3T. We didn't see his leg opening up to pop the jump.

VB - why did he lose Lori as his choreographer?

Lori was with Krall in a power/ego battle within the Chan team.

Patrick's coach Don Laws introduced Krall to Patrick as a Dartfish specialist to help him with his jumps. He became unhappy when Patrick started spending more time with Krall in Colorado instead of in Florida with him. So he fired Patrick a month and a half before the Olympics. Krall and Lori Nichols took him under their wings as his co-coaches. Krall brought in Johnson into the Chan team and she, in turn became unhappy with her role being lessened and she resigned right after 2012 Worlds. Patrick was depressed prior to this and contemplated quitting the sport. Since then he has had Johnson as his coach and Wilson and Buttle as his choreographers.

On a side note, don't you just love Google? Even though this article's title said:

"Patrick Chan Struggles in Trophée Eric Bompard short program",

in Google search it said:

"Patrick Chan tanks in Trophée Eric Bompard short program". Grrrr...

Different editors use different headlines for the same article. They love to blow things up, dramatize, and create controversies.

4everchan · Nov 13, 2015

friday the 13th… sigh.. i do not believe in it.. but

this morning… subway was jammed, the bus was jammed… and my toast weren't jammed…
then while at work, if found out one of my freelance contract is not renewed since they have no money left (not a surprise but the timing is uncanny)..

then was going to a meeting… buses were jammed… got there 20 minutes late….

then since i hadn't had food (and no jam on my toast!!!) since breakfast at 7am, i had to eat lunch at 4pm…. was starving.. and that meant i couldn't learn my music…

then taught and got angry at my students for the first time since they weren't focused and ready for lessons…

then got home and found out the gym in my building has brand new equipment now, just when I signed up for a year at a nearby gym…. GRRR but it's okay, I will have more eye candy there..

then I turned on the computer to see that patrick had done poorly…..

FRIDAY THE 13th… NOOOOOOOOO…

HAHAHA (it's okay, I bought wine)

Violet Bliss · Nov 13, 2015

There there, 4everchan. :console:

You were able to buy wine, so not so bad, eh? And Patrick was laughing. And you can put the jam on your toast now if you want. And you're not in Paris. And TEB is not in Paris.

And Friday the 13th is practically over. :handw:

Yup, Friday the 13th became memorable for me when on such a day years ago, I went for an appointment for a no-show. Found myself dizzy driving home. Then found I lost my wallet, I don't know how, with my health care, SIN and citizenship cards all gone along with cash, driver's license, and credit cards.

But that's the only awful Friday the 13th I remember. More Mercury Retrograde bad days though until I learned about them and to stay out of troubles.

Enjoy that wine and get a good night sleep so you'll be ready for a great day.

Oh, I think 4everchan already :bed:

by the time I posted.

4everchan · Nov 13, 2015

nah...

i am still awake... saw the Paris tragedy after Patrick's news... that surely puts things into perspective... yup... i still can have wine tonight... but the Paris news have me heartbroken.

tomorrow will be a long day too... since I will have to play a rehearsal without having learned the music for it... but I will survive. Hoping Patrick, I and more importantly Paris all bounce back tomorrow.

thanks for the care VB

Violet Bliss said:
There there, 4everchan.

You were able to buy wine, so not so bad, eh? And Patrick was laughing. And you can put the jam on your toast now if you want. And you're not in Paris. And TEB is not in Paris.

And Friday the 13th is practically over. :handw:

Yup, Friday the 13th became memorable for me when on such a day years ago, I went for an appointment for a no-show. Found myself dizzy driving home. Then found I lost my wallet, I don't know how, with my health care, SIN and citizenship cards all gone along with cash, driver's license, and credit cards.

But that's the only awful Friday the 13th I remember. More Mercury Retrograde bad days though until I learned about them and to stay out of troubles.

Enjoy that wine and get a good night sleep so you'll be ready for a great day.

Oh, I think 4everchan already by the time I posted.

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