Patrick Chan

Thanks, VB. Those kinds of power struggles between coaches only hurt the athlete. Ugh.

As for the media, they also love to exaggerate. However, I tried to find a similar headline saying "Yuzuru Hanyu tanks in Skate Canada short program" and couldn't. In fact, I'll bet that there are none, not even in the Japanese press.

Other random thoughts (no need to respond unless interested):

I'm so glad that TEB is being held in Bordeaux and not in Paris this year! Patrick and the other skaters are safe(r) there.

I believe in that IceNetWork article Patrick confessed for the first time that he was bitter about his loss in Sochi. 9He did confess before that he was bitter about his losses in Vancouver (article).) Even though it's many months after Sochi, I think it's cleansing for him to be able to admit this.

And now, on to weather the rough transition, as he said:

Coming to this event was kind of a rough transition, though: I had defeated Yuzu, my comeback was done, so now what? I feel I just…need to do my programs the way I skate in practice now.

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Yes, do that Patrick, over and over!

4everchan and everyone who had a rough day, I wish you a better day tomorrow... er, today!

vivley said:

Thanks, VB. Those kinds of power struggles between coaches only hurt the athlete. Ugh.

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Well, there is also likely a matter of personality conflicts. In Patrick's case, he was in the vortex of discords among four women (including his mom) who cared much about him. Poor dear...............

As for the media, they also love to exaggerate. However, I tried to find a similar headline saying "Yuzuru Hanyu tanks in Skate Canada short program" and couldn't. In fact, I'll bet that there are none, not even in the Japanese press.

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Especially not in the Japanese press. The Japanese stars have extremely passionate and protective fans.

In the past, any of Patrick's falls was made into gif, played and mocked over and over, imprinted and multiplied in people's mind, along with written exaggerations and claims of his constant falling, BS such as he had a fall cushion of anywhere from 4 to to 10 falls per program or event, etc. I remember once Takahashi had a most awkward and gif-worthy fall and I did see the gif once, just once. I did some stat compilations to show Patrick did not fall more than his rivals but facts cannot compare to repeated lies and fallacies purposely created and spread. Our subconscious minds don't really differentiate reality and images, thus the influences from media, shows, games, rumours, advertisements and propaganda.

The Japanese tsunami took place for about 15 minutes in a place with the most cameras to record and play the various images non stop over days whereas the equally devastating earthquake in Haiti a little earlier had no visual records as it happened and then news and media presence were immediately curtailed by the US which took over the management of the event. The psychological effect and actual responses to the two disasters were and are still vastly different. Same contrast between reports and images of acts of terrorism and of wars, one expanded and the other diminished or hidden, even officially prohibited. Bloody war images and returns of bodies of American soldiers from Iraq are banned in the US media, for example.

Similarly, character assaults can be very successful with repeatition. Ask any ostrich.

Other random thoughts (no need to respond unless interested):

I'm so glad that TEB is being held in Bordeaux and not in Paris this year! Patrick and the other skaters are safe(r) there.

I believe in that IceNetWork article Patrick confessed for the first time that he was bitter about his loss in Sochi. 9He did confess before that he was bitter about his losses in Vancouver (article).) Even though it's many months after Sochi, I think it's cleansing for him to be able to admit this.

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The bitterness is completely understandable and to be expected. Patrick's Olympic disappointments paled in comparison with Kurt's. In life, it's always about the chosen reactions more than events we can't control. Patrick turned the Vancouver let down into great triumphs and success. We are waiting to see the effects of the Sochi debacle.

And now, on to weather the rough transition, as he said:

Yes, do that Patrick, over and over!

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Yes, skate your programs like you do in practice, Patrick, at every competition.

4everchan and everyone who had a rough day, I wish you a better day tomorrow... er, today!

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Yes, choose joy and peace, each and every day. Choose your reactions wisely at every moment. Bliss to all.

vivley said:

Thanks, VB. Those kinds of power struggles between coaches only hurt the athlete. Ugh.

As for the media, they also love to exaggerate. However, I tried to find a similar headline saying "Yuzuru Hanyu tanks in Skate Canada short program" and couldn't. In fact, I'll bet that there are none, not even in the Japanese press.

Other random thoughts (no need to respond unless interested):

I'm so glad that TEB is being held in Bordeaux and not in Paris this year! Patrick and the other skaters are safe(r) there.

I believe in that IceNetWork article Patrick confessed for the first time that he was bitter about his loss in Sochi. 9He did confess before that he was bitter about his losses in Vancouver (article).) Even though it's many months after Sochi, I think it's cleansing for him to be able to admit this.

And now, on to weather the rough transition, as he said:

Yes, do that Patrick, over and over!

4everchan and everyone who had a rough day, I wish you a better day tomorrow... er, today!

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thanks viv and vb

Thanks, VB for your comments.

Article today on the cancellation (Patrick is pictured in the cover photo):

Trophée Bompard cancelled after terror attacks

Good quote about Patrick:

Chan, with his usual kindness, gave his condolences and best wishes to Gailhaguet and Eric Bompard, the main sponsor of the event.

"This kind of an event puts life in perspective," Chan added.

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classy Patrick as always.

vivley said:

Thanks, VB for your comments.

Article today on the cancellation (Patrick is pictured in the cover photo):

Trophée Bompard cancelled after terror attacks

Good quote about Patrick:

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4everchan said:

classy Patrick as always.

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It was very classy, especially since using the results of the SP would mean Patrick wouldn't qualify for the GPF. As Patrick learned in his season away, life is much bigger than figure skating. I do wonder if some alternative could be better (i.e. so Patrick could qualify for the GPF), but right now I can't think what it would be. It's a very sad situation all around. Not qualifying for the GPF would give Patrick even more time to polish the SP, but it would also mean that we'd have to wait until Nationals to see it again. hwell:

Side note: I wonder what the NBC coverage of TEB is going to look like, or if there will even be a broadcast. They've pretty much pretended the SPs don't exist at the GPs for quite some time now.

well CBC is showing on tv now... shoma just took the ice... he is very cute but a bit too young for me hahahahahaha they are showing it saying the short counts for medals.. and that's all..

let's get to the real business ... if i am correct, Patrick earns 22 points and still has a shot at qualifying... because if we look at other skaters, Max Aaron who won SA is below Patrick at TEB.... Denis did too poorly at SA to be a factor... Murakami finished 3rd in his two events and loses the tie breaker to Chan... what is needed is that Yuzu and Javi win their events, which would confirm them on top of the leaderboard with Shoma (Javi 30, Yuzu and Shoma 28)... then Patrick has a shot depending on how Brown and Kovtun do... there are a few men like Mura and Kozuka who have only one GP coming up, and could "steal" some of the top spots away from skaters in competition with Patrick... so it's most likely Patrick will make it..

on the other hand, I think that he would certainly use the time to refine his programs... but then, i think he needs more competition experience to get back into the ZONE more often... he wasn't there yesterday...

skatingfan4ever said:

It was very classy, especially since using the results of the SP would mean Patrick wouldn't qualify for the GPF. As Patrick learned in his season away, life is much bigger than figure skating. I do wonder if some alternative could be better (i.e. so Patrick could qualify for the GPF), but right now I can't think what it would be. It's a very sad situation all around. Not qualifying for the GPF would give Patrick even more time to polish the SP, but it would also mean that we'd have to wait until Nationals to see it again. hwell:

Side note: I wonder what the NBC coverage of TEB is going to look like, or if there will even be a broadcast. They've pretty much pretended the SPs don't exist at the GPs for quite some time now.

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Patrick not at the GPF will not be a tragedy for him or anybody else. GPF 2015 would be weird though without him and Liza but I suspect there would be an * associated with it and TEB 2015 anyway.

He still has a chance though, with 22 qualifying points earned with TEB SP taken for final placement. Nobody knows how the stars will align.

I wish Patrick a safe trip home.

Patrick will make GPF definitely. It would need Brown winning NHK or placing 2nd there to not make it, and Hanyu and Jin are likely to take top2 there

4everchan said:

let's get to the real business ... if i am correct, Patrick earns 22 points and still has a shot at qualifying... because if we look at other skaters, Max Aaron who won SA is below Patrick at TEB.... Denis did too poorly at SA to be a factor... Murakami finished 3rd in his two events and loses the tie breaker to Chan... what is needed is that Yuzu and Javi win their events, which would confirm them on top of the leaderboard with Shoma (Javi 30, Yuzu and Shoma 28)... then Patrick has a shot depending on how Brown and Kovtun do... there are a few men like Mura and Kozuka who have only one GP coming up, and could "steal" some of the top spots away from skaters in competition with Patrick... so it's most likely Patrick will make it..

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4everchan said:

on the other hand, I think that he would certainly use the time to refine his programs... but then, i think he needs more competition experience to get back into the ZONE more often... he wasn't there yesterday...

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Very true. Any competition experience will be helpful. Either way, I hope his time is well-spent and he can blow us all away in his next SP.

I also just want to say that I’m SO GLAD the skaters were not in Paris for TEB this year! Here's a heart-wrenching quote from Vanessa James in this tearjerker article:

“And it’s pretty scary because we are actually lucky to be in Bordeaux. Normally the competition is at Bercy (Arena) and the attacks were just around this area. And so I have to say that it’s actually destiny that God placed us here today and not in Bercy because we don’t know what could have happened."

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God bless all the skaters and other people who are dealing with this tragedy right now, in whatever degree.

I'm enjoying all of your comments.

Just watched this video of the the TEB Men's SP warmup from B.ESP with their commentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y-62yIIqF0

A lot of good comments on Patrick and speculation about his future.


Alas, now the pressure has only increased for these skaters, who must perform perfectly at every skate, because their opportunity to make up their scores may not happen due to terrorism or other unforeseen circumstances.

Yes, God bless all the skaters and everyone affected by the tragedy in France.

Some more videos with good commentary:

At around 4:00 of this video, the commentator explains why the jumps in the TEB SP didn't go well.

Let's see if that upper body was twisted... Yeah, that left shoulder, that left arm seemed to have a timing... it was kind of like the left arm went without the rest of the body..."

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Kurt Browning et al discuss Patrick starting at 1:31 of this video.

Kurt believes in Patrick's comeback, but the other commentator asks the question about Patrick's mental comeback...

Thank you vivley for all the videos.

Popping a jump is involuntary. It happens after the take off and the body says "This is not going to end well" and protects itself. At SC, I think Patrick knew right before or at take off that there would not be a safe 4T and he consciously downgraded it to a 3T, a beautiful 3T.

I wouldn't worry about Patrick's mental state. If he can laugh at his mistakes, he will enjoy his success. I think the SC experience actualized a major mental goal for him. He will have fun and enjoy all his competitions and that's the important part. He will realize his comeback goal, collecting medals as bonuses.

Where is he now?

Violet Bliss said:

The bodies of athletes in highly technical sports are like fine and sensitive instruments and these athletes are highly sensitive to their own bodies. A hang nail may concern them whereas in some other sports, an athlete is said to have "heart" when they ignore pain and injuries to continue to fight, sometimes literally, for victory. E.g. I think hockey players sometimes try to bleed harder to draw a penalty.

Popping a jump is automatic, the way the body says no. Patrick very seldom pops jumps. At SC his 4T was turned into a 3T. We didn't see his leg opening up to pop the jump.

Lori was with Krall in a power/ego battle within the Chan team.

Patrick's coach Don Laws introduced Krall to Patrick as a Dartfish specialist to help him with his jumps. He became unhappy when Patrick started spending more time with Krall in Colorado instead of in Florida with him. So he fired Patrick a month and a half before the Olympics. Krall and Lori Nichols took him under their wings as his co-coaches. Krall brought in Johnson into the Chan team and she, in turn became unhappy with her role being lessened and she resigned right after 2012 Worlds. Patrick was depressed prior to this and contemplated quitting the sport. Since then he has had Johnson as his coach and Wilson and Buttle as his choreographers.

Different editors use different headlines for the same article. They love to blow things up, dramatize, and create controversies.

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VB, you're so knowledgeable about everything! Among many other things, skating, skaters, and Patrick in particular. Thank you for sharing all these with us! Perhaps you can write a biography for Patrick and I'll buy a copy of your book!

i will buy that book too... but i want it signed by VB and PC themselves, and delivered to my house too... by those two

m0001 said:

VB, you're so knowledgeable about everything! Among many other things, skating, skaters, and Patrick in particular. Thank you for sharing all these with us! Perhaps you can write a biography for Patrick and I'll buy a copy of your book!

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Writing a biography for Patrick? As it is, it's a flattery even I ("a great poet" can't accept. But, I'd love to interview him whether or not I write a book about him as well as other successful people whose minds I'd love to know better. But I think someone else will write his biography in the future and I will buy that book.

eta. And, I'd be extremely happy if I could deliver that book with Patrick to you, 4verchan. The rest of you will need to book the delivery with Patrick, and I will happily oblige to come along.

Violet Bliss said:

Where is he now?

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I don't know. I just checked his Twitter hoping for some sort of "I got home safely" tweet, but no luck. Patrick really does not tweet very often and most of his tweets have to do with his sponsors and/or causes that he supports. I wonder why he doesn't tweet more often (which I guess is a good thing because it's less likely that his tweets can get misinterpreted). Of course, I'm not one to talk because my last tweet was in April of this year.

Violet Bliss said:

Writing a biography for Patrick? As it is, it's a flattery even I ("a great poet" can't accept. But, I'd love to interview him whether or not I write a book about him as well as other successful people whose minds I'd love to know better. But I think someone else will write his biography in the future and I will buy that book.

eta. And, I'd be extremely happy if I could deliver that book with Patrick to you, 4verchan. The rest of you will need to book the delivery with Patrick, and I will happily oblige to come along.

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You would probably be the best interviewer that Patrick has ever had. Being so curious about the workings of his mind, you would figure out how to ask the right questions and you would let him talk freely. It would be a very positive interview. And regardless of who writes Patrick's biography, I am SO buying it, ESPECIALLY if Patrick and VB deliver it together.

skatingfan4ever said:

I don't know. I just checked his Twitter hoping for some sort of "I got home safely" tweet, but no luck. Patrick really does not tweet very often and most of his tweets have to do with his sponsors and/or causes that he supports. I wonder why he doesn't tweet more often (which I guess is a good thing because it's less likely that his tweets can get misinterpreted). Of course, I'm not one to talk because my last tweet was in April of this year.


You would probably be the best interviewer that Patrick has ever had. Being so curious about the workings of his mind, you would figure out how to ask the right questions and you would let him talk freely. It would be a very positive interview. And regardless of who writes Patrick's biography, I am SO buying it, ESPECIALLY if Patrick and VB deliver it together.

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:thumbsup::agree:

I got my wish of NBC showing Patrick’s SP. It’s such a shame that it was under these circumstances. They showed most of the Ladies SP and Mens SP, plus V/T from pairs and H&D from dance. Johnny and Tara were lukewarm about Patrick's SP. (Unfortunately, I could not find a video online with the NBC commentary). Johnny said that Patrick is “a deep-knee skater” and that in this SP he “doesn't find the time to ease into the ice,” which makes him comfortable for the jumps. Johnny complimented Patrick for being very committed to any piece of music that he chooses. Johnny appreciates that he tries to dance his way through Mack the Knife, but he thinks the music is not conducive to completing jumps strongly because Patrick is so rushed and “not in a nice frame of skate” for difficult jumps (i.e. 4T and 3A). Johnny also thinks the program is unorganized, even for Patrick, and he does not like the costume at all, although Tara loves the sweater.

At the end of the broadcast, they showed an interview Patrick did with Tracy Wilson. Patrick said that he missed the quad because he had a little moment of hesitation going into it. Tracy asked him how he was able to continue so well knowing he had just lost 15 points, and his response warmed my heart as his fan: “When you make a mistake, you get the cobwebs out. Before the program, you worry about making a mistake, so once you make it, you're like, ‘Oh well, just enjoy it now, what else are you going to do?’” He said that’s what he did going into the other jumps, and it’s what he didn’t do in the SP at SC but he was able to do it at TEB. He said the energy of competition is “scary and also exciting, right on the edge of both.” LOVE HIS HONESTY. There is such a maturity in his outlook now. He was nowhere near this “Oh well; enjoy the rest of the program” attitude when he made his mistakes in Sochi. :thumbsup:

Side note: Tanith White (formerly Belbin) was the third analyst in the booth this time on NBC. When the studio person introduced the commentators before the coverage started, I really thought he had misspoken. Then Tanith introduced herself as Tanith White and I remembered that she and Charlie got married. In my mind, I'll probably always think of her as Tanith Belbin, but she IS Tanith White now.