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- Jun 21, 2003
Applied to Irina Slutskaya's skating before 2000, I would say only "unrefined" applies. :yes:
The way people use the word "gross" these days, it sort of leans over the fence into the bailiwick of "barfworthy."
Great Edges
- Thread starter ivy
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Applied to Irina Slutskaya's skating before 2000, I would say only "unrefined" applies. :yes:
The way people use the word "gross" these days, it sort of leans over the fence into the bailiwick of "barfworthy."
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- Nov 19, 2010
I thought gross means 144.
Or, in business, EBITA.
Or, in business, EBITA.
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Have you seen them side by side to make that assumption?
Irina is explosive, but she landed ALL of her jumps to complete halts. Absolutely no flow out of them. Based on what they did in their career, and based on how many times Irina held it together, I believe Irina is a better skater.
Carolina generated speed with such ease. Shizuka also did with such ease. With Irina, it looked like work. She pushed and pushed and pushed, like she's going into labor. Best skating skill? What a joke!Dragonlady said:
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
I'm new here but I feel like I should start by saying that it's unfortunate that this thread has become about insulting Carolina and Irina (and each other) instead of just appreciating great edges as was intended. It's obvious at least one person thinks Irina didn't have good edges but for my money both Irina and Carolina have fabulous edges and basic skating skills. These have served both of them well. I'm on board with those who think Irina was really something special but Carolina is great, no doubt about it. To the extent that anyone is trying to claim either of them did/do not have great edges, that is just factually inaccurate.
I'm late to the thread but other skaters whose edges I have enjoyed (outside of ice dance where there are many obvious candidates) include recently: Shizuka as was mentioned earlier, Czisny who perhaps seems a bit better than she is to be based on the fact that when I see her it's usually up against other US ladies, and actually Lepisto though I'm not a huge fan of hers for other reasons. Also Lysacek.
I'm late to the thread but other skaters whose edges I have enjoyed (outside of ice dance where there are many obvious candidates) include recently: Shizuka as was mentioned earlier, Czisny who perhaps seems a bit better than she is to be based on the fact that when I see her it's usually up against other US ladies, and actually Lepisto though I'm not a huge fan of hers for other reasons. Also Lysacek.
I went back to look at Irina's first 3 years at the World Championship level and compare to Caro's first 3 years.
95.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJhr0klXXpo
LP: not found.
96.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkIDX2uIWQE
TES: 5.6-5.8
PRE: 5.5-5.8
LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyz2Yei1-WM&feature=related
TES: 5.7-5.8
PRE: 5.6-5.8
97.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muywb3QoMGc
TES: 5.1-5.4
PRE: 5.4-5.7
LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSWtcD6fKlc
TES: 5.7-5.9
PRE: ?
Caro
2003.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZBz7juIsg4
TES: 5.3-5.7
PRE: 5.3-5.6
LP: Not found.
2004.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3aTCvH9Zxo
TES: 5.5-5.8
PRE: 5.4-5.7
LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGZ8Gu_shO0
TES: 5.2-5.9
PRE: 5.2-5.7
2005.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7U1EmCiTE4&feature=related
LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omkV2Za9nws&feature=related
First year,
Carolina >> Irina
Second year
Carolina > Irina
Third year
Carolina >>>> Irina
Comparing Irina's silver medal performances in 96 vs. Carolina's bronze performances in 2005, they are not even close in term of quality skating. Carolina is head and shoulder above Irina.
Irina was lucky to compete in a much weaker era, and the Russian fed was pushing her hard enough to make her a contender. Her competitive record was great, but vis-a-vis, she wouldn't be where she was had she competed in the same time frame as Carolina. Too bad Carolina is such a head case. My point has always been Carolina's SS is better. I have never said Irina's SS was terrible. She was good, not great. That's all.
95.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJhr0klXXpo
LP: not found.
96.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkIDX2uIWQE
TES: 5.6-5.8
PRE: 5.5-5.8
LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyz2Yei1-WM&feature=related
TES: 5.7-5.8
PRE: 5.6-5.8
97.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muywb3QoMGc
TES: 5.1-5.4
PRE: 5.4-5.7
LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSWtcD6fKlc
TES: 5.7-5.9
PRE: ?
Caro
2003.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZBz7juIsg4
TES: 5.3-5.7
PRE: 5.3-5.6
LP: Not found.
2004.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3aTCvH9Zxo
TES: 5.5-5.8
PRE: 5.4-5.7
LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGZ8Gu_shO0
TES: 5.2-5.9
PRE: 5.2-5.7
2005.
SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7U1EmCiTE4&feature=related
LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omkV2Za9nws&feature=related
First year,
Carolina >> Irina
Second year
Carolina > Irina
Third year
Carolina >>>> Irina
Comparing Irina's silver medal performances in 96 vs. Carolina's bronze performances in 2005, they are not even close in term of quality skating. Carolina is head and shoulder above Irina.
Irina was lucky to compete in a much weaker era, and the Russian fed was pushing her hard enough to make her a contender. Her competitive record was great, but vis-a-vis, she wouldn't be where she was had she competed in the same time frame as Carolina. Too bad Carolina is such a head case. My point has always been Carolina's SS is better. I have never said Irina's SS was terrible. She was good, not great. That's all.
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- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
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Pretty much all the top level dancers make all the singles skaters look edge-challenged....
Charlie White & Scott Moir are the best
Nathalie Pechalat is also great!!
Charlie White & Scott Moir are the best
Nathalie Pechalat is also great!!
Agreed, tulosai. There's no need to insult either (or both) of two very good skaters, Carolina and Irina, who have made significant contributions in the last decade and more. Neither of them benefits by having the other denigrated.
And if you admire Shizuka, you obviously have very good taste and great smarts.
Skatefiguring, I love it! Gross means 144. That I'll sign on with.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
Pretty much all the top level dancers make all the singles skaters look edge-challenged....
Charlie White & Scott Moir are the best
Nathalie Pechalat is also great!!
I'm with you, Doris! I think ice dancers could also give short track speed skaters a run for their money when it comes to speed, not just from pushing, but from the use of the running edge.
I didn't appreciate them very much at the time (probably because of all the drama surrounding them), but Oksana Baiul and Yevgeny Platov have got to be some of the best skaters ever.
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- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
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Are you sure you don't mean Oksana Grishuk & Yevgeny Platov?
(BTW, Usova & Zhulin and Klimova & Ponamarenko, not to mention Torvill & Dean all had wonderful edges).
(BTW, Usova & Zhulin and Klimova & Ponamarenko, not to mention Torvill & Dean all had wonderful edges).
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
Yes, Doris--I stand corrected. Grishuk and Platov...along with the others you mention have the most amazing edges. I think it was Platov who said that because most of them had at one time or another worked with Natalia Dubova, their edges were better than others. He said he can always tell if a skater has the "Dubova" Edge.
Interesting about Dubova. Is she teaching anymore, by the way?
That era, the early to mid-nineties, was a high point in Russian ice dancing. Between Klimova/Ponomarenko (my faves of the bunch), Usova/Zhulin, and Grishchuk/Platov, you could have just handed out gold medals like candy; they all seemed to deserve them. And right before them had been Bestemianova/Bukhin, who were pretty splendid also. There are a bunch of Soviet-Russian pairs around that period who were good, who even got world championships, but who weren't really memorable. I think of them as the "businesslike" pairs. But among those top ice dancers, not a single team was businesslike. They were all individualistic, inventive, impassioned.
That era, the early to mid-nineties, was a high point in Russian ice dancing. Between Klimova/Ponomarenko (my faves of the bunch), Usova/Zhulin, and Grishchuk/Platov, you could have just handed out gold medals like candy; they all seemed to deserve them. And right before them had been Bestemianova/Bukhin, who were pretty splendid also. There are a bunch of Soviet-Russian pairs around that period who were good, who even got world championships, but who weren't really memorable. I think of them as the "businesslike" pairs. But among those top ice dancers, not a single team was businesslike. They were all individualistic, inventive, impassioned.
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- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
The on e thing all those great pairs (along with Anissina/Peizerat, and Bourne/Kraatz) have in common is they were coached at one time (either as primary, secondary, or consulting coaches) by Natalia Dubova, who still coaches in the Connecticut area.
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- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
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Stamford CT, Twin Rinks, I think? I'm not sure how active she is any more, but she and her husband still live in Stamford.
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- Jun 3, 2009
1. I would argue that Kostner has the best skating skill of any singles or pairs lady currently competing, and she even compares to the fourth or fifth best guys.
2. Brian Boitano when asked who had the best blade-to-ice skills in the sport mentioned Charlie White.
3. Domnina/Shabalin had great edgework pre-injury.
4. Super glad to hear Vash mention all those greats, but I've gotta repeat the praise for Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze and Grishuk/Platov. The latter's running edges are flat out insane.
2. Brian Boitano when asked who had the best blade-to-ice skills in the sport mentioned Charlie White.
3. Domnina/Shabalin had great edgework pre-injury.
4. Super glad to hear Vash mention all those greats, but I've gotta repeat the praise for Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze and Grishuk/Platov. The latter's running edges are flat out insane.
Pretty much all the top level dancers make all the singles skaters look edge-challenged....
Charlie White & Scott Moir are the best
Nathalie Pechalat is also great!!
Can they do this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ziQ253eUi2I#t=134s
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- Nov 22, 2009
With the possible exception of John Curry, one of the most impressive programs of edges and control I've ever seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3WXYFcS2Gw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3WXYFcS2Gw
Thank you for introducing me to Gary Beacom. He does not do any jumps nor spins, but I could watch his edge work repeatedly. What a wonderful skater!
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
This kind of program isn't really my taste, but dang, I can't stop watching his foot(edge)work!
Men:
1. John Curry http://youtu.be/SXJqsoFwUic
2. the legendary (of this matter) Gary Beacom- professiobnal WorldChampion
3.Patrick Chan.
4.Stephan Lambiel.
5.Toller Cranston.
Ladies:
Shizuka Arakawa,
Yuka Sato,
Yu-Na Kim,
Carolina Kostner
(why to mention Kwan, who was not even able to perform an edgy Lutz, which is not even the highschool of the figure skating....)
1. John Curry http://youtu.be/SXJqsoFwUic
2. the legendary (of this matter) Gary Beacom- professiobnal WorldChampion
3.Patrick Chan.
4.Stephan Lambiel.
5.Toller Cranston.
Ladies:
Shizuka Arakawa,
Yuka Sato,
Yu-Na Kim,
Carolina Kostner
(why to mention Kwan, who was not even able to perform an edgy Lutz, which is not even the highschool of the figure skating....)
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