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Thread: Japanese Nationals - Ladies

  1. #166
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    Well, Elizaveta appears to have a problem jump in the flip, she has frequently doubled it or had trouble with it this year - she doesn't even attempt it in the SP because of this. Also, I'm not 100% if they can do a 3F-3T/3Lo just because they can do 3Lz-3T or 3Lz-3Lo. I would think if Adelina could do 3F-3Lo, she would've changed it by now because of her flutz. Note Julia also gets called for a flutz sometimes.

  2. #167
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Not to go totally off topic, but what about Gracie Gold? 3Lz (no edge call), 3F+3T, 2A in the SP, 3Lz+3T, 2A+3T in the LP; BIG jumps and lots of speed...She also has had one assignment so far in her career at a JGP and her score was pretty close to Lipnitskaia's with no international experience.

  3. #168
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    why are we discussing about Liza, Adelina, Julia and Gracie here ? isn't this about Japanese Nationals ?

    with that said how many juniors does Japan set to compete at worlds
    so it will be Satoko Miyahara and Haruna Suzuki ?

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    why are we discussing about Liza, Adelina, Julia and Gracie here ? isn't this about Japanese Nationals ?

    with that said how many juniors does Japan set to compete at worlds
    so it will be Satoko Miyahara and Haruna Suzuki ?
    It's Miyahara, Shoji, and I'm pretty sure Sato. Tomotaki must be feeling a bit badly after finishing 2nd at Jr. Nationals both this and last year...

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post

    I'm very happy for Kanako. She had such a breakout season last year but she's been struggling a lot this year. She nailed that SP and did a good job in the FS. That fall on the footwork was so weird! After the performance you could tell how embarrassed she was and Machiko's face when she finished was priceless! I'm glad she made the team again too. She's grown so much in terms of her expression and relation to the music and I just love her speed. Kanako's exhibition was very lovely as well. You can really see her maturity and growth in that performance and she does such a good job of carrying that music and letting it build. Wonderful exhibition from her; she really created a moment there and it was beautiful.
    Then why does she keep getting the same PCS from judges?

  6. #171
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by volk View Post
    Then why does she keep getting the same PCS from judges?
    For the exact same reason Akiko Suzuki got shafted in PCS until this year when the judges finally decided to look her way; for the same reason Patrick Chan can fall 3 or 4 times and still win by 10+ points; for the same reason fans (both casual and educated) are getting fed up with this sport...the judges are full of ****. That's why. :sheesh:
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-30-2011 at 12:32 AM. Reason: Please do not try to circumvent the language censor. We are a G rated website.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    For the exact same reason Akiko Suzuki got shafted in PCS until this year when the judges finally decided to look her way; for the same reason Patrick Chan can fall 3 or 4 times and still win by 10+ points; for the same reason fans (both casual and educated) are getting fed up with this sport...the judges are full of ****. That's why. :sheesh:
    :sheesh: Name one time that Patrick Chan falls 3 or 4 times and still wins by 10+ points.

    Judges are not the ones full of it.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-30-2011 at 12:32 AM.

  8. #173
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    :sheesh: Name one time that Patrick Chan falls 3 or 4 times and still wins by 10+ points.

    Judges are not the ones full of it.
    You are completely correct. I agree. At the gpf, Chan did not fall 3 or 4 times. Instead, in the short program, he fell on his 4T-3T and messed up the 3A. In the long program, he stepped out of the first 4T, put a hand down on the quad in the 4T-2T, and messed up the 2T in that combination. Oh, and then, he fell on the lutz. So what is the grand total of mistakes?..... 6 big mistakes? And he won by 10+ points- to be exact 11.18 points. Of course, all of the other elements are SO SUPERB that he can still afford to win by such a large margin. Or his choreography, transitions, etc. are so amazing that they can project him to first place any day. He also got PCS about 2 points in the short and 2 points in the long higher than Takahashi. You mean Takahashi that is one of the best in history when considering performance, interpretation, and choreography? Really? Many people often argue that it is not true Chan won with 3 or 4 falls. Well, he did worse at this gpf.

  9. #174
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    At GPF 2011, Chan had 2 falls total.

    Go ahead, name one event in which Chan fell 3 or 4 times and won by 10+ points.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 12-30-2011 at 12:58 AM.

  10. #175
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Who knew that Patrick Chan was a Japanese lady?

    For that matter, who knew that Daisuke Takahashi was a Japanese lady?

    Do you feel we need a thread, titled something like a Fall & Slip Reference, describing every time a skater or team had skating flaws and won an event, so that we can reference the information accurately? That is, a Winners' Slip and Fall reference, since it is indeed true these days that many skaters and teams have major flaws & falls and still medal.

    If you feel we need that education, SkateFiguring, would you please start such a thread so that we can be accurate here? An alternative way to look at it is the old 6.0 way-how many clean jumps did the winning skater land per competition. This is a more positive way to represent the data.

    It might keep this repretitive discussion from highjacking every competition thread in the forum.

  11. #176
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    I didn't bring it up but can't help refuting nonsense when it comes up, and it seems to come up everywhere I happen to look.

  12. #177
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
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    First of all, 4 non-fall mistakes may worse than one fall. Your argument is the falls. But that's not just it. If Chan won a competition with 2 falls only and no other mistakes that would be one thing but that is not the case.
    Second, name me in his whole career: "How many competitions in his senior career did Patrick Chan win without falls (I'm not even counting competitions where he stepped out of a jump or put his hand down)?" I already count world and canadian nationals. Any more? You probably won't find that many. And let me reiterate- sometimes a bunch of mistakes are more costly than one fall. Consider the fall on the 3 lutz he had. He got -2.10. The fall on 4T-3T. He got -2.29. Together that would be -4.39. Yes, the GOEs are on jumps that have different base values but there would be a small difference if the falls were both lutzes or both 4T.

    Now, his numerous mistakes. 4T (-1.86), 4T-2T (-2.43), 3A (-1.00). That is a total of -5.29. Together, these mistakes had more negative GOEs than two falls. Again, I understand that the higher value the jump, the more GOE you get, but the difference could be in a tenth maybe if all of the jumps were the same value.

    I'm not arguing that Chan won with 3 falls, I'm arguing he won with 2 falls and a bunch of high costing mistakes.

  13. #178
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianaSelene View Post
    First of all, 4 non-fall mistakes may worse than one fall. Your argument is the falls. But that's not just it. If Chan won a competition with 2 falls only and no other mistakes that would be one thing but that is not the case.
    Second, name me in his whole career: "How many competitions in his senior career did Patrick Chan win without falls (I'm not even counting competitions where he stepped out of a jump or put his hand down)?" I already count world and canadian nationals. Any more? You probably won't find that many. And let me reiterate- sometimes a bunch of mistakes are more costly than one fall. Consider the fall on the 3 lutz he had. He got -2.10. The fall on 4T-3T. He got -2.29. Together that would be -4.39. Yes, the GOEs are on jumps that have different base values but there would be a small difference if the falls were both lutzes or both 4T.

    Now, his numerous mistakes. 4T (-1.86), 4T-2T (-2.43), 3A (-1.00). That is a total of -5.29. Together, these mistakes had more negative GOEs than two falls. Again, I understand that the higher value the jump, the more GOE you get, but the difference could be in a tenth maybe if all of the jumps were the same value.

    I'm not arguing that Chan won with 3 falls, I'm arguing he won with 2 falls and a bunch of high costing mistakes.
    Sorry, Doris about putting this here. I didn't see your post until I already posted mine. Please put it in another thread. Thanks.

  14. #179
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    ^^^ I won't go into such discussion on this thread. Just responding to a statement made. A simple request to back up a statement made as a basis for another statement, i.e. judges are full of you know what.

  15. #180
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    ^^^ I won't go into such discussion on this thread. Just responding to a statement made. A simple request to back up a statement made as a basis for another statement, i.e. judges are full of you know what.
    I completely understand. I was just answering you when you asked about how many times Chan won with 3 or 4 falls. But to put an end to this, I will say that Chan did win once with 4 falls. It was at Skate Canada in 2010. But he won by 3 points, not 10. Just saying.

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