Chinese skaters' ages

What ever happened to the story about the Chineese using skaters with age discrepencies for the events they won?
http://tinyurl.com/7lxunk3

wow, like in gymnastics. china is a world power and their blatant cheating and disregard for so many human rights taints their athletes and just makes the world angry. this coming superpower wants to win, at whatever cost. such a shame, such a danger.

^agreed. So, did anything happen as far as titles won when the athletes were clearly too old or too young? Dont get me wrong, I really enjoy many of the Chineese skaters....but the medals need to be returned if the skaters were not eligible and the history books corrected....

I think nothing happened, though I recalled talk after Beging of maybe having to return medals. But I don't follow elite gymnastics. I guess a google search in needed.

Nothing happened. The conclusion was ages submitted to ISU were correct while the ones posted on the national website were wrong because of typing mistakes. ISU didn't have any proof to show they cheated. It is easy for Chinese citizens to have their ages changed. Not only athletes, but also ordinary people do that to attend school or get married earlier.And once ages got changed, the fake ones become legally real ones.

I think skaters should not be blamed. They were forced to have their ages changed and keep their real ages as secrets. Governors in skating organization force young skaters to train a lot and compete at senior level in order to purchase good grades as soon as possible,so that they themselves could be promoted. And once the truth is uncovered, the organization either try to erase all the proofs, or put all the blames on athletes, just as they did on the poor girl Fangxiao Dong in gymnastics, who became disabled because of heavy training and got deprived of her job and all the grades her earned because of fake age.

Ah, that is sad, about Fangxiao Dong.

wjww said:

Nothing happened. The conclusion was ages submitted to ISU were correct while the ones posted on the national website were wrong because of typing mistakes.

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Typing errors, eh? Then why did those errors happen only in a convenient way (over-reporting the age of a girl yet under-reporting the one of a man)? Aren't errors supposed to be random? How did the Chinese officials explain themselves out of that?

Any solid proof or just yet another accusation, similar to the 2008 Olympic? The 2008 Olympic was clear and it was just typical Americans trying to make some noise about losing the gold to the Chinese.

I just hate that China always get the bad vibe from the world. Basically, when some rumor starts, China must be guilty

jettasian said:

I just hate that China always get the bad vibe from the world. Basically, when some rumor starts, China must be guilty

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Chinese skaters, including the Zhangs, have publically declared that their ages were falsified and they want the practice stopped. The athletes themselves want this practice to stop. They are decent people who do not want to cheat to get medals. But since the Chinese government participates in this fraud, there is little that the sports federations can do. They must accept the official documents the Chinese government provides to its athletes.

I applaud the skaters for speaking up and while I would like to think that the Chinese federation would be sufficiently embarassed by the publicity to stop these practices, I won't hold my breath.

skateluvr said:

wow, like in gymnastics. china is a world power and their blatant cheating and disregard for so many human rights taints their athletes and just makes the world angry. this coming superpower wants to win, at whatever cost. such a shame, such a danger.

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"so many human rights taints"
Did you ever come to China? If you didn't, you should remember this "乌鸦笑猪黑，自己不觉得"！

skatinginbc said:

Typing errors, eh? Then why did those errors happen only in a convenient way (over-reporting the age of a girl yet under-reporting the one of a man)? Aren't errors supposed to be random? How did the Chinese officials explain themselves out of that?

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It is just their "typing errors".

Somehow I think the parents do have a say in such "data errors". At least they agree on it. Everybody wants to get the big price. Age change has minimun impact on the kids, esp. when they medal. there will be big reward if they medal.

bsfan said:

It is just their "typing errors".

Somehow I think the parents do have a say in such "data errors". At least they agree on it. Everybody wants to get the big price. Age change has minimun impact on the kids, esp. when they medal. there will be big reward if they medal.

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It is almost impossible for them to refuse such suggestions. Figure skating would be too expensive if there is no support from the government. As all the boots and costumes you wear, all the ice you skate on and all the coaches around you are paid by the government, how could you say no to their words? Refusal is costly and unadvisable.

I thought this was something new but that was a story form 2011/2/15.

Dragonlady said:

Chinese skaters, including the Zhangs, have publically declared that their ages were falsified and they want the practice stopped. The athletes themselves want this practice to stop. They are decent people who do not want to cheat to get medals. But since the Chinese government participates in this fraud, there is little that the sports federations can do. They must accept the official documents the Chinese government provides to its athletes.

I applaud the skaters for speaking up and while I would like to think that the Chinese federation would be sufficiently embarassed by the publicity to stop these practices, I won't hold my breath.

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I would like to know the source of this. I remember the Zhangs scoffing at the allegations. On their site, http://zhdanzhhao.sports.cn/, Front and centre and on top are three headlines with links, plus an additional picture and link on top left, about their ages being cleared by 2011/2/18 while the other alleged violations were still under investigation.

Jiarry said:

"so many human rights taints"
Did you ever come to China? If you didn't, you should remember this "乌鸦笑猪黑，自己不觉得"！

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"乌鸦笑猪黑，自己不觉得" ("The pot calling the kettle black"; Greek: Ipe o gaidaros ton petino kefala "The donkey calling the rooster big head") is not a good defense or excuse for one's ignominious human rights practices. Acknowledging the wrongs of one's country is true patriotism. Without admitting the flaws, one will never take the first step for improvement.

Agreed, skatinginbc. History is full of countries that looked long and hard at themselves and stood up to admit a shortcoming. It generally has been beneficial. Certainly the U.S. has had many instances of blushing publicly, including apologizing for Japanese internment in World War II and admitting the most egregious wrongs of segregation. This has made us stronger, not weaker. (Add to that the fact that the people who were wronged in both those cases were also Americans.)

Language question: Is "kefala" the word in that phrase that means "head" in Greek? Like the element in hydrocephalus and encephalitis? How neat!

Olympia said:

Is "kefala" the word in that phrase that means "head" in Greek? Like the element in hydrocephalus and encephalitis?

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You are absolutely right. Kefali (κεφάλι), the Greek word for "head", is the root for both hydrocephalus and encephalitis. Kefala (κεφάλα) is a specific type of head, namely "big head" or "head of a jackass".

Back to the thread topic: How many figure skaters were listed in Chinese Skating Association website? Say, if the total of listed skaters is 100, it would be a 9% error rate given that nine of them had "wrong" birth dates. On average, the error rate for a typist is around 4 to 6% (before spell-check and all that). It is an official website, so checking and editing would have been done more thoroughly, and the error rate would have been lower than the average unless it is done by some special made-in-China invisible typewriter that can generate data by itself.

Dragonlady said:

Chinese skaters, including the Zhangs, have publically declared that their ages were falsified and they want the practice stopped. The athletes themselves want this practice to stop. They are decent people who do not want to cheat to get medals. But since the Chinese government participates in this fraud, there is little that the sports federations can do. They must accept the official documents the Chinese government provides to its athletes.

I applaud the skaters for speaking up and while I would like to think that the Chinese federation would be sufficiently embarassed by the publicity to stop these practices, I won't hold my breath.

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The skaters speak out against the Chinese gov't and they got away with it? Wow, don't think find something's not right there?

jettasian said:

Any solid proof or just yet another accusation, similar to the 2008 Olympic? The 2008 Olympic was clear and it was just typical Americans trying to make some noise about losing the gold to the Chinese.

I just hate that China always get the bad vibe from the world. Basically, when some rumor starts, China must be guilty

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1) Oh baloney. I was in the arena in 2008--not even the other Chinese spectators sitting around me believed that their country's gymnasts were of age. Age falsification is actively practiced in China and not just for sports. (as post quoted below points out)

2) You may hate it, but usually when rumors start, China IS guilty. Cheating and lying are an endemic part of living here, every day of every year. One might say it is ingrained in modern Chinese culture. Whatever one can get away with, by any means necessary, is OK. It is expected that counterparties will take appropriate measures to protect themselves, and to push back as necessary. The Chinese at all levels love it when they come up against a bunch of foreign marshmallows.

wjww said:

Nothing happened. The conclusion was ages submitted to ISU were correct while the ones posted on the national website were wrong because of typing mistakes. ISU didn't have any proof to show they cheated. It is easy for Chinese citizens to have their ages changed. Not only athletes, but also ordinary people do that to attend school or get married earlier.And once ages got changed, the fake ones become legally real ones.

I think skaters should not be blamed. They were forced to have their ages changed and keep their real ages as secrets. Governors in skating organization force young skaters to train a lot and compete at senior level in order to purchase good grades as soon as possible,so that they themselves could be promoted. And once the truth is uncovered, the organization either try to erase all the proofs, or put all the blames on athletes, just as they did on the poor girl Fangxiao Dong in gymnastics, who became disabled because of heavy training and got deprived of her job and all the grades her earned because of fake age.

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The ISU and the International Olympic Committee just do not want to rock the boat when it comes to China. To be sure, they have very few cards they can play against a government and sports federation that actively participates in the deception.

As to blaming athletes themselves, I'm of mixed feelings on this. Yes, the athletes are pawns, but I don't think they (or in the case of children, their parents) should be let off the hook entirely as blameless victims. They/their parents CHOOSE to go on with the athletic training and thus become active partipants in the deception as well, rather than turn their back and walk away when all the falsification starts. And yes, walking away is an option, even in China. Remember the vast majority of kids from poor and wealthy families alike, do not participate in elite sports and manage to find their way in life. I also find it hard to believe that an athlete that is in active training on a national team, could speak up against the system and not experience serious repercussions. Once outside the system, maybe speaking out is possible. I also would like to see the public statement made by the Zhangs where they admit to age falsification, as I don't remember it this way. (IMO her age was definitely falsified as they started heading for the senior level.)

In case that anyone, including the thread starter, is interested in this topic, it has been beaten to death several times already in this forum at the time when this AP article was fresh in February of this year:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?33829-Chinese-Skaters-Age-In-Question

bigsisjiejie said:

Cheating and lying are an endemic part of living here, every day of every year. One might say it is ingrained in modern Chinese culture. Whatever one can get away with, by any means necessary, is OK.

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This is the exact case of "Pot calling kettle black." What do you think about your own culture and your own country?:sheesh:

Bluebonnet said:

This is the exact case of "Pot calling kettle black." What do you think about your own culture and your own country?:sheesh:

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You're another one full of baloney. This has nothing to do with pot-kettle-black. I do not believe there is currently another country on the planet where the government and sports federations are actively involved in age falsification like the Chinese. Full stop.

Nice try at trying to deflect the issue, but why don't you stick with the thread topic at hand? There really isn't a lot of middle ground--you either believe the Chinese or you don't. You either are OK with cheating or you're not. Since you aren't really stepping up to condemn the cheating, I will assume this means you have no problem with it. And on this, we will have to disagree.