ISU judging error for dance results GPF

**veravina** · 01-01-2012, 09:02 PM

The current judging may favour D&W's skills, however, I think V&M are being underestimated. I never thought they'd beat D&W's Indian themed OD with a flamenco, but they came out and absolutely killed it. These two are ferocious competitors and while the 4 continents may be too soon for V&M - since it's in the US, I think they will win World's this year.
I don't understand the obstinancy of the ISU about correcting results when a mechanical error is found. Particularly this time when no one's medal would have changed.

**Ravensque** · 01-02-2012, 08:41 AM

My opinion on this is that should an error be discovered, whether it's a judge's error or a software error, this should be reflected asap whether it changes the medals or not. These errors are not the skaters' fault. In the case of V/M & D/W, it would not have made much of a difference (only that V/M would have pulled slightly ahead in the FD), but then again that should be noted in the results.

**chuckm** · 01-02-2012, 08:45 AM

Results can be changed only within a very narrow time frame, a matter of hours. The error was discovered after more than a week. If the ISU changed the results of the GPF, then they'd have to go back and recalculate ALL the ice dance results since the start of the season. V/M wouldn't have won the GPF anyway---why open a can of worms just to assuage Scott Moir's pride?

Taffy · 01-02-2012, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by chuckm

why open a can of worms just to assuage Scott Moir's pride?

Scott Moir has nothing to do with it, nor does any skater. How did an ISU mistake become about a particular skater? All ice dancers are potentially impacted. This is very serious.

**ImaginaryPogue** · 01-02-2012, 11:30 AM

Here's the thing - it's actually quite lucky that no ice dancers were seriously impacted. The Shibutanis won NHK with 0.09 points. What would've happened if they lost by that much? This error would be the reason. P/B didn't compete at Skate Canada due to their bronchitis, but this could've easily meant the difference between silver or bronze. And what about at sectionals/regionals, where this might have meant the difference between qualifying for Nationals. Or at a Senior B, where this would've meant the difference between getting a season best or not. I doubt Moir's pride would be assuaged by winning the FD given that his complaint was largely about PCS, which remain unaffected.

In the end, I think recaculating all dance totals is actually the right thing to do. It won't change anything here, but I don't see how letting the totals stand (which affect half the dancers at the GPF) is somehow better.

**Buttercup** · 01-02-2012, 11:48 AM

I agree with everyone who wrote that this is hardly about Scott Moir's pride; it's a matter of correcting a serious calculation error that could have impacted skaters throughout the season. With some pretty close rivalries going on at the moment, it's important that the ISU makes sure everything is calculated correctly and that the skaters are properly marked for what they do on the ice. Publicizing the calculation error was therefore important, and doing so without addressing whether or not it had affected any competition so far would have looked like the ISU was trying to hide something. Better to be transparent about it - something that should certainly be encouraged when it comes to the ISU.

p.s. Scott's comments were about the PCS anyway, or more accurately, about artistry. Which is not the same as PCS and certainly not related to GOEs.

**veravina** · 01-03-2012, 08:16 PM

Nail Moir to the cross if you must for some ill-advised remark he made, but don't hold him or any other skater responsible for the software error that lead to a judging miscalculation. If the ISU wants the judging system to be seen as accurate and therefore better than the old 6.0 one, then they have to make the corrections when they're discovered - and win, lose or draw - correct everyone's score whenever and wherever it's required.

**npa** · 01-04-2012, 08:48 AM

O yes - Moir upset two Angels - Dawis-White

Moir said the truth and he didnt said nothing bad about D-W, judges or ISU. Wood D-W coldnt be compare with V-M in any of the component score, but Scott talked only about artistry impression, wich didnt mean a lot now days. Not only in ice dance, look at pairs competition - S-Z had lower component score, then V-T.
Sad, that nobody notice any problems in technikal score since Juli 2011. Look like only skating fans notice this and ask ISU about that problem with the combination lift score. Not first time ISU show unprofessional work.

**chuckm** · 01-04-2012, 09:07 AM

Moir did say V/M were the best ice dancers in the world. While he may believe that to the core, it isn't the most diplomatic thing to say at a time when they finished behind another team. That implies the other team is not on their level, and that simply is not true.

Scott comes across as immature, a bit arrogant and somewhat lacking in sportsmanship. Some V/M fans seem to think it's great that Scott speaks his mind, but if Charlie White or Meryl Davis said something disparaging about another team, those same fans would be outraged.

**ImaginaryPogue** · 01-04-2012, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by chuckm

Moir did say V/M were the best ice dancers in the world. While he may believe that to the core, it isn't the most diplomatic thing to say at a time when they finished behind another team. That implies the other team is not on their level, and that simply is not true.

Scott comes across as immature, a bit arrogant and somewhat lacking in sportsmanship. Some V/M fans seem to think it's great that Scott speaks his mind, but if Charlie White or Meryl Davis said something disparaging about another team, those same fans would be outraged.

This is true and not an unfair comment to make. I myself was pleased that he made this comment for reasons previously stated. But this isn't really relevant to the software error.

**npa** · 01-04-2012, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by chuckm

Moir did say V/M were the best ice dancers in the world. While he may believe that to the core, it isn't the most diplomatic thing to say at a time when they finished behind another team. That implies the other team is not on their level, and that simply is not true.

Scott comes across as immature, a bit arrogant and somewhat lacking in sportsmanship. Some V/M fans seem to think it's great that Scott speaks his mind, but if Charlie White or Meryl Davis said something disparaging about another team, those same fans would be outraged.

O yes, like i said before - Angels D-W and devil Moir

He said they are best artistry, but he didnt said- we are the best team overall, but not best overall. But who care - small americans in danger

Honestly, i never could understand, why V-M stay woith D-W and Z-Sh so long- they are so much better, then this.
Someone need to help ice dancing, because this is going something wrong if Davis on the top of the sport and White on the top not in free skating, but in ice dance.
Honestly, cant wait D-W will retier - judges andc D-W fans didnt give me any chance to love them

**heyhey** · 01-04-2012, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by chuckm

Moir did say V/M were the best ice dancers in the world. While he may believe that to the core, it isn't the most diplomatic thing to say at a time when they finished behind another team. That implies the other team is not on their level, and that simply is not true.

Scott comes across as immature, a bit arrogant and somewhat lacking in sportsmanship. Some V/M fans seem to think it's great that Scott speaks his mind, but if Charlie White or Meryl Davis said something disparaging about another team, those same fans would be outraged.

I agree that Moir's timing and choice of words were not perfect to say the least. But I don't think that Davis/White are perfect either. There was a fluff piece with Davis/White during Skate America celebrating their World title and what it meant to the US and how this was a big breakthrough - which I agree it was. But the fluff piece was cringeworthy on so many levels in terms of bashing Russian dominance/biased judging and Davis in particular made some interesting quotes that would make you believe that some Russian greats were not worthy of their medals. So I don't think the entitlement issue is just with Moir. I don't have the link to the interview, but if you see the fluff piece - it will be an eye-opener. And it is ironic with this fluff piece that D/W - yes have overcome the Russian dominance but are actually coached by ex-Russians, LOL...

**npa** · 01-04-2012, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by heyhey

And it is ironic with this fluff piece that D/W - yes have overcome the Russian dominance but are actually coached by ex-Russians, LOL...

I thought the same - dear Mery, your so close to you coach was champion at JWCh at that time, so he didnt deserve this? Both D-W coaches had Tsaikovskay bases, who coach Pohomova-Gorshkov - they must lose to americans? Grinenko, who learned how to dance in Russia (or Soviet Union) help D-W with this year SD. And i remeber she talking about "russian domination", but people know in that time not all ice dancers was from Russia (famouse Grishuck-Platov was from Ukrain).
And what was americans from D-W gold at last year WCH? Davis and White? Who they will be without Shpilband and Zueva?

At least Moir never talk about unfair medals for other teams. And even in interview for fans Tessa and Scott said, they are not thinking about unfair results, because they start thinking what they need improove before next competition.
And did you remember White sadi he thinking all year after 2009 WCh about he lose medal at WCH? So in this case he dont think he was better at 2009 WCh then other teams?