ISU judging error for dance results GPF

npa · Jan 5, 2012

'the best artistic ice dance team of the last 5 years'. But who care if you want to show Moir is the worst person and ice dancer in the World?
Dont worry, judges show to everyone D-W will be on top untill they retiered/
Davis is icon of ice dancing and she will be on top with her health untill 2026

chuckm · Jan 5, 2012

I have no complaint with respect to V/M's talent and ability.

I rather doubt that D/W will be on top all the time. I consider these two teams to be on an equal footing and every competition is going to be a nailbiter.

I just wish Scott had kept his mouth shut, even just to maintain an illusion of good sportsmanship. He's taken some of the fun and excitement out of their rivalry.

Dragonlady · Jan 5, 2012

chuckm said:
I rather doubt that D/W will be on top all the time. I consider these two teams to be on an equal footing and every competition is going to be a nailbiter.

I agree, and that will it make so much more fun for all of us.

npa · Jan 5, 2012

chuckm said:
I have no complaint with respect to V/M's talent and ability.

I rather doubt that D/W will be on top all the time. I consider these two teams to be on an equal footing and every competition is going to be a nailbiter.

I just wish Scott had kept his mouth shut, even just to maintain an illusion of good sportsmanship. He's taken some of the fun and excitement out of their rivalry.

Yes, Scott do a foolish think -he must let Davis to open her mouth first.

If i were Scott first off all i made all for D-W show there real faces and never skate with them on the same ice. Its insult to be on the same podium with them is insult? i agree with Shabalin

OK - i will stop this, because Z-Sh made new World, where Davis is ice dance icon, White is dancer so maybe i stop watchinf "ice dancing", because this isnt ice dancing/ I will wait when we will have new ice dance icon, even if this will take 20 years

Mrs. P · Jan 5, 2012

npa said:
Yes, Scott do a foolish think -he must let Davis to open her mouth first.
If i were Scott first off all i made all for D-W show there real faces and never skate with them on the same ice. Its insult to be on the same podium with them is insult? i agree with Shabalin
OK - i will stop this, because Z-Sh made new World, where Davis is ice dance icon, White is dancer so maybe i stop watchinf "ice dancing", because this isnt ice dancing/ I will wait when we will have new ice dance icon, even if this will take 20 years

Guess we're not watching the same D/W FD this year. You know, a waltz is a dance.... :laugh:

Where's jcoates when we need her?

In any case, why does it have to be either or? I don't get all the hate/insults for either team.

Mathman · Jan 5, 2012

^ "him"

J. C. Oates notwithstanding.

katia · Jan 5, 2012

I just wish Scott had kept his mouth shut, even just to maintain an illusion of good sportsmanship. He's taken some of the fun and excitement out of their rivalry.
I don't understand, why should he? He was working hard, was sure about how good their dance is, so said what he thought was right.
I approve.
In fact I think that it is in the best tradition of rivalry to say what one is thinking and not be wishy-washy about it.

Mathman · Jan 5, 2012

chuckm said:
I just wish Scott had kept his mouth shut, even just to maintain an illusion of good sportsmanship. He's taken some of the fun and excitement out of their rivalry.

To me it's quite the opposite. Now if Meryl would just haul off and slug Tessa (or vice versa) that would really put some fun and excitement into it.

heyhey · Jan 5, 2012

Mathman said:
To me it's quite the opposite. Now if Meryl would just haul off and slug Tessa (or vice versa) that would really put some fun and excitement into it.

All we need to add is some Eminem for some Detroit flavour, LOL....In terms of Charlie White and Scott Moir's friendship - I can't help but associate them to Jack Lemmon's and Walter Matthau's characters in the Grumpier Old Men movies...both competitive...trying to "up" one another but really respecting each other...cuz hey it can't be easy growing up as a male ice dancer and that's what I see with the Canton guys...a great camaderie...I can totally picture Charlie and Scott being friends way after their competitive days are over....Unfortunately I think the media would love to have these 2 teams really hate each other...

mmcdermott · Jan 5, 2012

Back to the original topic...

There's a new article from PJ Kwong about the scoring error, with an interview with ISU Vice-President Daivd Dore.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskating/opinion/2012/01/virtue-moir-victims-of-scoring-error.html

He also addresses some of the other concerns people have raised about the judging system.

Sorry if this has already been posted somewhere ... I didn't see it.

emma · Jan 5, 2012

Thanks for the link. I sort of feel for Mathman here - if I read the interview correctly, it basically said that falling is good because people are skating more, which might make Mathman really, really grumpy. MM I feel your pain. And, I love the skating ('the more' part) and I feel like such a fence sitter, which I'm not usually, but apparently have become totally with this darn sport I love so much.

Anyway, aside from the failure to address falls, the thing that irked me here was : yes we made a mistake and corrected it, but didn't really correct it because the final results will always remain (I really feel like if the speaker is truly committed to 'evolution' in this sport, then maybe that rule about revising results needs, well, revision, too).

CoyoteChris · Jan 6, 2012

Hmmm....Mathman is right again...I like it....tomarrow's papers will read....
"Out of the inky shaddows, a woman resembling Tanith Belbin suddenly appeared, shoving a cream pie into the face of Scott Moir....As he sank to his knees, he was heard to cry, "WHHHHHYYYYYYYYYY?"

This could save figure skating....there is no such thing as bad publicity.
(My apologies to Nancy Kerrigan)

heyhey · Jan 6, 2012

CoyoteChris said:
Hmmm....Mathman is right again...I like it....tomarrow's papers will read....
"Out of the inky shaddows, a woman resembling Tanith Belbin suddenly appeared, shoving a cream pie into the face of Scott Moir....As he sank to his knees, he was heard to cry, "WHHHHHYYYYYYYYYY?"

This could save figure skating....there is no such thing as bad publicity.
(My apologies to Nancy Kerrigan)

LOL.....the REAL "ICE DANCERS" of Michigan...

jcoates · Jan 6, 2012

I agree with chuckm that Charlie and Scott are likely not at all bothered by any of this supposed tension. They have been competing against each other in two sports since they were children. Of course they will be competitive, rib each other and on occasion be inclined to a hot headed moment. They can still be friends despite this. There was a guy I new in high school 20 years ago whom I had a similar relationship with. He was a year older, had been somewhat intimidating toward me early on. He seemed to be the better athlete, taller, sharper, etc. I was a late bloomer when it came to sports. We ended up on the wrestling team together and were paired or 3-4 years as sparring partners, eventually competing for the starting position in our preferred weight class. The loser would have to move up a position in weight (which was a disadvantage). For the first year and half he beat me routinely. Often, it was not even close. Gradually, I got stronger, faster, more confident. I started challenging more regularly in practice until I matched and eventually surpassed him consistently. The confidence I gained from that, allowed me to grow enough to be a pretty solid competitor against other teams and later one of the best at my school. Through all of this a funny thing happened. We became friends. Not great friends, but friends nonetheless. He held no grudge against me. Our competition was on the mat not off. We grew to respect each other and are still friends over the internet today. We became comfortable being able to rib each other, make boasts and laugh off our mistakes. I suspect that Charlie and Scott's relationship has a similar quality. Just because some of their fans can be personal adversaries does not mean they will do the same.

fairly4 · Jan 6, 2012

David Dore is 2nd in command in the ISU--no surprise sticks up for v/m who are canadian. made sure score got changed and hype it up so everyone knows it.

He is Canadian.

My mom who is 84 years old, has watch the sport since 1960's. says it hasn't changed. the system is still flawed always, will be.

the never cut michelle kwan a break, always make her skate perfect to win and even medal.

too bad the ISU didn't come in in 2004 in June and stated a scoring error. but they didn't --politics.

dwiggin3 · Jan 6, 2012

Mathman said:
To me it's quite the opposite. Now if Meryl would just haul off and slug Tessa (or vice versa) that would really put some fun and excitement into it.

only as long as Tessa claws at Meryl's face and we see the makeup come peeling off! LOL Girl fight!

Mathman · Jan 6, 2012

Yeah, here in Detroit we play smash-mouth ice dancing. Got our rep to uphold!

emma said:
Thanks for the link. I sort of feel for Mathman here - if I read the interview correctly, it basically said that falling is good because people are skating more, which might make Mathman really, really grumpy. MM I feel your pain. And, I love the skating ('the more' part) and I feel like such a fence sitter, which I'm not usually, but apparently have become totally with this darn sport I love so much.

I have become a fence-sitter, too. On the Virtue and Moir thread we have been making fun of David Dore for saying that the ordinal judging system has been in effect for "hundreds of years," so naturally any new system needs time to work the bugs out.

But in fact Dore is right to say that from the beginning of figure skating contests (which probably are hundreds of years old, in one form or another), the only means of deciding the contest was to have a panel of judges charged with saying, "In my opinion this skater is number one and that skater is number two." The idea of awarding a defined number of points for the successful performance of a set list of athletic feats really is more "sport-like."

How to accomplish this while honoring the history and traditions of figure skating is not an easy task.

mmcdermott · Jan 6, 2012

Mathman said:
How to accomplish this while honoring the history and traditions of figure skating is not an easy task.

I agree. Any judging system is going to be "flawed" in some way. I honestly don't know why some people get so upset about it. Very few things in this world are perfect. I think the current system is pretty good. Dore said that they plan to continue to tweak it, and that some changes have had other consequences etc. I used to be a huge gymnastics fan and, in comparison, the ISU has done a much, much better job of developing a scoring system that properly evaluates skaters while honouring the history and traditions of the sport

I also think that a lot of people are getting very upset because of what has happened so far this season. Yes, there have been a lot of falls - in the mens singles, this season. That hasn't been the case since the COP was implemented in 2004, has it?

The men are pushing the boundaries now, which is good, but it is exposing a "flaw" in the system. It sounds like the ISU Is perfectly willing to make further adjustments to address things like this.

Ladskater · Jan 8, 2012

I thought there was something funny with the final free dance marks, as both dance teams were in such a tight race to the finish. Virtue and Moir skated their free dance perfectly. Scott only had a minor slip on the short program. It almost looked liked favoritism on behalf of Davis and White. I guess the new marking system is not so perfected after all...

chuckm · Jan 8, 2012

Ladskater said:
I thought there was something funny with the final free dance marks, as both dance teams were in such a tight race to the finish. Virtue and Moir skated their free dance perfectly. Scott only had a minor slip on the short program. It almost looked liked favoritism on behalf of Davis and White. I guess the new marking system is not so perfected after all...

I thought there was something funny with the final FD marks, too. D/W were scored TOO LOW. I thought the favoritism was towards V/M---after all
Scott's "minor slip" in the SP was a fall on his ***, and their first lift in the FD was slow and labored.

ISU judging error for dance results GPF

npa

Match Penalty

chuckm

Dragonlady

npa

Match Penalty

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Mathman

katia

Mathman

heyhey

mmcdermott

emma

CoyoteChris

heyhey

jcoates

fairly4

dwiggin3

Mathman

mmcdermott

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

chuckm

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