Favorite and least favorite coaches?

Olympia · Jan 10, 2012

I think that's one reason he's so fond of both Michelle and Evan L. They are two of the most notoriously self-disciplined workhorses in skating. And as I recall, he always had good things to say about Linda Fratianne as well, and she seemed pretty hardworking. And then, poor man, he ended up with Christopher Bowman....It must have been so frustrating for Carroll to see someone with so much natural talent just throwing himself away. The one thing I've never understood is his treatment of Timothy Goebel. I never got the impression that Goebel was a slacker, and yet didn't Carroll "fire" him? Does anyone have any insight into that?

I'm glad to hear several good stories about Carroll from people who know him. I've always had a soft spot for him, since Michelle.

Buttercup · Jan 11, 2012

Concerning Frank Carroll, I find his tendency to criticize his skaters' competitors and to make accusations about conspiracies and wuzrobbing very unappealing. I had hoped that after successfully coaching an OGM (and a masterful politikking job in the bargain) he'd calm down, but alas, no. And speaking of picking on someone your own size, his comments about Liza Tuktamysheva during the GP were mean-spirited and uncalled for.

I'd also argue that a truly great coach will find a way to get through to more difficult skaters and not just the highly self-disciplined ones. Christopher Bowman may have been a lost cause due to his personal issues, but Carroll didn't exactly do wonders for Carolina Kostner and I'm not very impressed with his work with Mirai, either. Whatever their issues are, they are very good skaters who do not have the kind of problems Bowman did. As a comparison, in The Second Mark you can get a sense of Tamara Moskvina's approach with Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze, who apparently weren't always the most motivated skaters; the Chaplin program is mentioned as a way of getting Anton engaged in a program by giving him an artistic challenge. That's smart coaching.

Tonichelle · Jan 11, 2012

Olympia said:
The one thing I've never understood is his treatment of Timothy Goebel. I never got the impression that Goebel was a slacker, and yet didn't Carroll "fire" him? Does anyone have any insight into that?

Neither Carroll or Goebel ever came out and said it. Fans speculated and I hope it does not get repeated here (remember teh guidelines folks!) but it wasn't a very healthy break. Yes, Carrol fired Goebel (according to Tim) and passed him off to Mike Weiss' former coach Audrey Weissiger (Carrol said he was being pulled in too many different directions and so he sent Tim to his good friend who could help him more). Tim felt that Carrol had decided to focus on his up and comers due to Tim's foot and back issues. That's what the press documented anyway.

Interesting to note, though, that when the drama unfolded in 2005 around Angela Nikodinov who Tim was very close to, Frank went over and spoke with Tim for a long while about it. So he wasn't a total badgar about Tim... but for some reason he didn't want to deal with the coaching aspect of it anymore.

Tim seems to have moved on, though, and is enjoying his college life (I think he's done or nearly so) so it all worked out in the end I suppose.

Olympia · Jan 11, 2012

Thanks, Toni.

KKonas · Jan 11, 2012

Frank Carroll is a great coach. He was inducted into the US Figure Skating Hall of Fame in 1996 and the World Figure Skating Hall of Fame in 2007. He doesn't "coddle" skaters but expects them to work - do full run-throughs of programs. He did everything he could outside of coaching to help Bowman for several years until he realized that there wasn't anything more he could do. At his age now he can work with those skaters he feels he can help and who are self-motivated enough to succeed. There are personalities that may not like his coaching style and that's why some leave, or why he may feel he is not helping the skater for whatever reason and suggests another coach as in the case of Tim G.

mskater93 · Jan 11, 2012

KKonas - I get the same impression from my coach who worked with Frank for a while. You follow the prescribed work instructions Frank gives you to the letter and you work your @ss off to be successful or he's done with you. One of the things that I appreciate what gets stressed (and this my coach DID learn from Frank because I know how his other coaches were) is you do what I have prescribed in the lesson - NO EXCUSES - no tired, not feeling it, stiff, sore, bruised, dead!

Dragonlady · Jan 11, 2012

One of things I had heard in regard to Frank Carroll was that he took the split with Chris Bowman very personally. Bowman was like a son to Frank. Frank fired him he just couldn't watch someone he cared about that much destroy himself.

All too often the people who surround talented people with drug problems just coddle them along figuring they can help them more by staying close to them. Some do this in hopes of keeping the person on track long enough to "pay off" on their investment in the talent, not because of any genuine caring for their client. Frank cared enough to walk away from Bowman. To me, that takes incredible courage.

mskater93 · Jan 11, 2012

People have said Frank wasn't the same after having to "fire" Bowman in terms of personal relationships with his students. He truly DID want to help Bowman, got him into a rehab center more than once...

Olympia · Jan 11, 2012

Heartbreaking. Frank really was a good friend to Chris. The problem was that Chris wasn't ready to accept such lifesaving help. And he apparently never became ready.

KKonas · Jan 11, 2012

mskater93 said:
People have said Frank wasn't the same after having to "fire" Bowman in terms of personal relationships with his students. He truly DID want to help Bowman, got him into a rehab center more than once...

Yes, that's true, which is why the split with Kwan later was so hard on him. I do think he tries now not to be personally invested in his students.

Olympia · Jan 11, 2012

At least, thank goodness, Kwan never did anything distressing, either by squandering her talents with bad behavior or with bad-mouthing Carroll after the split. He could always be proud of her, and he could always take pride in his role in shaping such a formidable champion. I still think (with the little I know) that it would have been nice if Kwan could have managed to stay with Frank until the Olympics--both for her sake and for his. But since I'm ignorant of what went on, and since I suspect neither of them will ever tell us, I have to be satisfied with the way things turned out. She did continue to rake in medals, and the two of them did regain their friendship. So things ended well. That's a consolation. And of course then he had Lysacek--the true happy ending for him. Everything he could have wanted in a student—diligence, persistence, eagerness, talent, and an OGM to top it off.

Jammers · Jan 11, 2012

I don't think Frank suffers fools lightly. Or for that matter skaters who slack off and don't do what he teaches them to do. That's why he was so angry at Mirai at Nationals last year. Mirai slacked off in her training heading into Nationals then in the LP just seemed to give up and make stupid little mistakes. He knows she's capable of so much more but doesn't want to hear excuses.

Hanaka · Jan 12, 2012

I rewatched All Japan Ladies FS today and realized when Mao finished her skating, Nobuo Sato's eyes were teary and also his wife Kumiko was crying in K&C. I was moved by warm feeling and felt really happy for her to have these two as her mentors. I thoght I can trust this team from now on to Sochi no matter what ups and downs happen in their way. Their bond seems to have become pretty strong now.

Favorite and least favorite coaches?

Olympia

Buttercup

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Olympia

KKonas

mskater93

Dragonlady

mskater93

Olympia

KKonas

Olympia

Jammers

Hanaka

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