Flatt looking to shake off poor Grand Prix season | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Flatt looking to shake off poor Grand Prix season

Sasha'sSpins

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@Sasha'sSpins do you really think Alissa is going to become national champion with jumps like this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR2Wfuj1XHA

I know you want Alissa and Mirai to make the world team, but do you really think that their going to get us 3 spots back this year ? I know people don't want Rachael to make the worlds team ( I don't either ), but I don't understand why some feel that Alissa and Mirai can get it done. Even though they haven't been sent to world together,BUT they have been sent to worlds. Alissa 11th place and 2011 and Mirai 2010 7th place. These are two very beautiful skaters yet they are both so inconsisitant and lack self confidence. What would be the odds of both of them hitting at worlds ? Also isn't Alissa still injured ? I hope I'm not sounding too harsh, but look at what's been givien to us from them both: Alissa ( the above video ) what happened to her jumps ? I know some people are saying it's just a show, but the main point is she's not landing jumps. Mirai basically said in her interview her training situation isn't the greatest,she lost her jumps and she's going from rink to rink. When Mirai is on she's brillant, just like when Alissa's on she's beautiful but so far this season when have they been on ? The only American skater who seems to have the fire and determination this season is Ashley. Plus I think she has really good programs this year. I hope she's overcome her Sp issues and makes the world team. Just like I hope Alissa is fully healed and lands her jumps. I hope Mirai shows us how brillant she can be and I hope Rachael proves all her nay sayers wrong.

Where did I say I think Alissa will be national champion with jumps like that? I think she'll make the world team unless she has total a meltdown. Same with Mirai.

As to the rest-that's your opinion. As I said, IF Nagasu and Czisny bring their A game to worlds should they make the team, YES I do believe they will get those 3 spots back for the U.S.
 
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skateluvr

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Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Sorry for the double post but Rachael hasn't been a reliable skater since the Olympics. She still for some reason has kept that reputation among some people, but she has been very far from reliable over the past 2 years.

She is a big time fighter and she can still do two great skates. It is not mental with Rachael when she does not perform. We all know she is attempting the impossible this year, but, I say, let us see what she brings to nationals. It is the vagaries of skating that Ashley could skate her heart out and this year's zombified Mirai does better. Rachael is a national champion, who could and likely would get gold at nationals if she were training like before Stanford. People just love to diss Rachael, but i expect her to want to make a strong showing at nationals, she will fight, and when she fights and practices well, she medals.
 

Jammers

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She is a big time fighter and she can still do two great skates. It is not mental with Rachael when she does not perform. We all know she is attempting the impossible this year, but, I say, let us see what she brings to nationals. It is the vagaries of skating that Ashley could skate her heart out and this year's zombified Mirai does better. Rachael is a national champion, who could and likely would get gold at nationals if she were training like before Stanford. People just love to diss Rachael, but i expect her to want to make a strong showing at nationals, she will fight, and when she fights and practices well, she medals.

Rachael is never going to be a champion and i think it's time for the Flatt fans to realize that. Even if she pulls off a miracle and wins Nationals or finishes second be prepared for another 11th place finish at Worlds. International judges do NOT like her skating.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Rachael is never going to be a champion and i think it's time for the Flatt fans to realize that. Even if she pulls off a miracle and wins Nationals or finishes second be prepared for another 11th place finish at Worlds. International judges do NOT like her skating.

Jammers, I am speaking about US Nationals. She is not a judges darling because they know she is not a lifer. They like other skaters better for sure but she is a US Champion and Olympian who deserved 5th acc to the experts. She is not willing to forego her education for a World medal. But she can certainly do well over Alissa and Mirai this year. I think irs Ashley's year. It should be if she does her best.
 

tulosai

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Dec 21, 2011
Jammers, I am speaking about US Nationals. She is not a judges darling because they know she is not a lifer. They like other skaters better for sure but she is a US Champion and Olympian who deserved 5th acc to the experts. She is not willing to forego her education for a World medal. But she can certainly do well over Alissa and Mirai this year. I think irs Ashley's year. It should be if she does her best.

I am honestly not a Rachael hater but I don't think judges dislike her because she's not a 'lifer'. Davis/White for example were both in college during the Olys- it did not stop their 2nd place finish. it was well known when Hughes was competing that she was looking at Ivys. She won Oly gold. I think they dislike her STYLE of skating. I am not a mind reader so I don't know why but I think it is probably at root the same reason a lot of people here don't like her skating- they find it hard to feel an emotional connection to it, she is not as graceful as some of the other skaters (with some of the more technical things that implies i.e her posture is not the best, lack of pointed toe etc) and possibly even because they (unfairly) don't like her 'looks'.

I am no Rachael fan but I'm no hater either. If she could preform again like she did the Oly year (including a triple-triple and NO major mistakes in most if not all programs) I'd have no reservations about sending her to Worlds. As things are now, I have reservations even if she preforms well, though they are not as strong as they would be were the field stronger. Having said that I think if she is in the top 2 we should obviously send her. The next few days will tell the story.
 

mskater93

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Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Being "hated" didn't stop Tonya Harding, though. The things Tonya had that Flatt does not is:
1) BIG jumps
2) a 3A
3) speed
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
She is not willing to forego her education for a World medal.

I don't think this is at all true. I think she truly believes that she can sustain this insane schedule (complete with extra shows and travel) and eventually medal internationally. She said in the first ESPNW article that her ultimate goal is to medal at Sochi. So she is not at all looking at this as education first and not performing on that level. Which is appearing to be a delusion.
 

ManyCairns

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Mar 12, 2007
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^I think Louisa makes a good point. It does seem to me, without parsing out the specific number of course hours and types of courses and so forth, that Rachael really thinks she can take a lot of hours at Stanford AND do a full complement of extracurricular activities AND continue to skate well nationally and internationally. From the beginning of her talk of going to Stanford I thought she was taking on a lot, but even then I originally thought she would focus just on studies and skating and that would be it. But with that article series it became apparent she wanted to do _a lot_ of the fun stuff, like trick-or-treating in the dorm and so forth.

I would think it would be hard enough to make this work just by concentrating on classes and with skating as pretty much the only extracurricular activity, but she does seem to want to keep doing it "all," so to speak. Don't know if it is delusional, but seems improbable.

I still enjoy Rachael's skating when she is on, and respect her grit, but she's doing a lot of different things now, so it's hard to think the skating won't be compromised.
 

R.D.

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Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I said before- it's a learning process. I went through it myself a few years ago and I'm sure you all have as well.

Of course, it wasn't at this scale, but it was the same lesson in principle; figuring how much you can handle and the best way to do so.

Flatt apparently thought she could do both- and is now finding out that it's not nearly as simple as she may have thought initially. What sounds good or workable in theory often doesn't play out well in practice. I said it from the start- SOMETHING is going to take a hit since you can't give 100% to both school and high-level skating. I won't get into the school part, since this is a skate forum, but in terms of her skating- if she wants to bounce back and get to where she was in 2009, it's going to require a lot of time and effort- time she likely doesn't have and effort she likely cannot give due to school commitment. Thus it's a bit hard to imagine there'll be a significant turnaround in her performance this week compared to December.

We'll find out in a few days. It seems every National title contender has had some sort of documented struggle this season (save Wagner perhaps), so this might be interesting. Traditionally Nationals is Flatt's strongest event- and perhaps Wagner's weakest.
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
the article says she trains in the moring before class, goes to class, then goes back to the rink. i don't know what her normal training schedule is like and how many hours she puts in, but it sounds like it's about 4 hours a day.
 

skateluvr

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Joined
Oct 23, 2011
I agree we may have seen her best international event in Vancouver. I don't think she stands a chance against the Russian babies. I thought this was maybe her swan season. I agree that international judges don't like her looks or body type. Her posture isn't really bad. She has no neck, and sloopy shoulders. She is matronly looking. But go back and watch her 2010 SP and LP and remember how good it was. She deserved 5th place in Vancouver, and look at 1-4 skaters. She is world class when she puts in the effort that the top ladies do. My point is, she is capable, but wants to have it all. I agree she will learn she can't. After this season, she will have to leave school if she hopes to make another Oly team. Delusional? Ridiculous word. Extremely confident and ambitious suits her more. This girl wants to try to do it all. I am her fan for life. And though she may not be a disney ice princess, she is worth far more than most of the bun heads we have seen come and go. Brilliant Rachael!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
Why criticize Rachael because she wants to do it all? That's a natural reaction to people who are ambitious and driven. Will they risk burnout? Sure! But that's part of the journey. Granted, I'm not a figure skater, but as someone who constantly strives to improve in my career, I can relate to Rachael and her desire to make the most out of life.

It amuses me that people on these board are criticizing her for traits that would gain admiration outside of these boards. Why does she want to compete? Why not?! Let her compete until she drops dead. She wants to do it all? As I said, who doesn't?! And if you look at her life, she is happy. Sure she has setbacks, but I see someone who is enjoying her life much more than some of her detractors.

As they say, you can sleep when you're dead.
 
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ManyCairns

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Hmmm, I guess I don't think people (or at least, certainly not me) don't think it is admirable that Rachael wants to do so much. I think she's grand. I just think that it is almost impossible to do everything that she is trying to do, and that consequently her skating results have suffered.

If that's what Rachael wants (to do so many other things along with skating), that is absolutely fine. But I think she probably does want better competition results, and she'll have to figure out how to make those happen if she decides to continue skating. Which may require further scheduling changes/making some sacrifices in other areas.

We all pay opportunity costs for everything we do (of course). For everything we choose to do with every moment, there are billions of things that we thus can't do with those same moments. All I'm trying to get at is that I don't think Rachael has figured out her balance yet, especially if she'd like better competition results.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
Hmmm, I guess I don't think people (or at least, certainly not me) don't think it is admirable that Rachael wants to do so much. I think she's grand. I just think that it is almost impossible to do everything that she is trying to do, and that consequently her skating results have suffered.

If that's what Rachael wants (to do so many other things along with skating), that is absolutely fine. But I think she probably does want better competition results, and she'll have to figure out how to make those happen if she decides to continue skating. Which may require further scheduling changes/making some sacrifices in other areas.

We all pay opportunity costs for everything we do (of course). For everything we choose to do with every moment, there are billions of things that we thus can't do with those same moments. All I'm trying to get at is that I don't think Rachael has figured out her balance yet, especially if she'd like better competition results.

Those are valid points and yes, burnout and mediocre results are not admirable traits. I guess I should clarify that I admire here enthusiasm to make the most of every experience and a desire to do her best in everything she does, even if it doesn't always result in good results. Yes, she shouldn't be happy with her competition results, and I don't get the vibe she's is — the last article ESPN did say that she's lighten her load this quarter.

I wasn't really pointing at your posts in particular, but rather an underlying vibe in some posts that Rachael should just give up skating because she hasn't figure out her workflow and schedule. Or "HOW DARE YOU TRY TO DO SKATING AND STANFORD!"

My take is that as long as she qualifies for competitions and beats people to get to other competitions, than she should be able to compete. I think she is an experience — though still evolving — competitor and she'll figure out what she'll need to do next. Calling her a has been at 19 seems a bit extreme when have people in their mid-20s winning competitions currently.

Or if she decides, hey I can't handle both, then that's fine too.
 

mskater93

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Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Debbie Thomas was at Stanford (ChemE/premed) while skating at the highest level. In fact, her most successful season (1986) was a jam packed one schedule-wise. She transferred for the Olympic season to a JuCo to make it easier on herself to be able to train more effectively, but gave herself shin splints heading into the Olympic games. It CAN be done and for some people they are better off if they are doing too much
 

R.D.

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Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Yes, but perhaps there were fewer events back then? The demands on the athletes weren't quite as high? Not by any means saying she necessarily had an easier time, but just pointing out that things are quite a bit different now.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
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Dec 3, 2011
Yes, but perhaps there were fewer events back then? The demands on the athletes weren't quite as high? Not by any means saying she necessarily had an easier time, but just pointing out that things are quite a bit different now.

There was no GP season. And as noted, Debbie left Stanford for the year to make her load easier.

Sorry, I don't admire "doing it all". America has a culture of burnout. It is not something we should be proud of. We admire people who push themselves to the limit and disregard their physical and emotional health. It is more foolishness than ambition. Skaters like Kwan have proven that there is nothing wrong with doing one thing at a time and that a season of life focused on competing does not mean that educational goals can never be achieved.

I used to do it all. I learned that enjoying my life, my relationships and the world and being healthy is much more fulfilling than having other people admire how little I can sleep and still function.
 

Jammers

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Nov 4, 2010
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Plus skaters like Debbie were better skaters then Rachael ever will be. As for the older skaters winning events in their mid-20's again they are skaters who are more talented then Rachael ever will be.
 
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