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Thread: Senior ladies competition

  1. #46
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    IF Cynthia gets sent to Worlds this year, it only makes up for when she didn't go when she won the Canadian title the first time. She set a precedent of the National Champion not going to Worlds herself

  2. #47
    Moving up the testing structure Kypma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    IF Cynthia gets sent to Worlds this year, it only makes up for when she didn't go when she won the Canadian title the first time. She set a precedent of the National Champion not going to Worlds herself
    But wasn't it her team that year that decided she wasn't ready for worlds at that point in her development? Kind of like Benoît Lavoie was quoted as saying pertaining to if Kaetlyn Osmond won the title (whether she would be offered the spot to worlds).
    Last edited by Kypma; 01-22-2012 at 05:38 PM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by lise View Post
    Mike Slipchuk had said protocols were set since 1994. That could be an indication that they will send Amelie.
    Hm, so there is a protocol. Then I change my mind. Amelie should go.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    IF Cynthia gets sent to Worlds this year, it only makes up for when she didn't go when she won the Canadian title the first time. She set a precedent of the National Champion not going to Worlds herself
    But I thought she was consulted first and she volunteered to go the Junior Worlds instead. Unless Amelie volunteers to opt out, it would be unfair to force her.

    Amelie should go. Amelie should go.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 01-22-2012 at 01:37 PM.

  4. #49
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    However, I've been told that they have changed a few things because of 1996 when Jen Robinson beat Josee. Josee, easily could have made the podium, but we sent Jen who was 21st or 18th.

    It's certainly a tough decision to make, but what if this was a competition that Joannie competed it and bombed? Would they still send the National champion or would they send in the one who had the record of getting the top result?

    In this case, they are looking at protocols, how the ladies skated in general and see that without the lutz or the flip, Amelie is not going anywhere. Cynthia has all jumps back except for the the flip in addition to having a top 5 result at Worlds. That has to be a huge consideration. Worlds were pushed back 1 full month last year; so that probably impacted the bad performances we did see.

  5. #50
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lise View Post
    However, I've been told that they have changed a few things because of 1996 when Jen Robinson beat Josee. Josee, easily could have made the podium, but we sent Jen who was 21st or 18th.

    It's certainly a tough decision to make, but what if this was a competition that Joannie competed it and bombed? Would they still send the National champion or would they send in the one who had the record of getting the top result?

    In this case, they are looking at protocols, how the ladies skated in general and see that without the lutz or the flip, Amelie is not going anywhere. Cynthia has all jumps back except for the the flip in addition to having a top 5 result at Worlds. That has to be a huge consideration. Worlds were pushed back 1 full month last year; so that probably impacted the bad performances we did see.
    Only in her wildest dreams is Phaneuf even in the same breath as Rochette and Chouinard. Phaneuf has not even medaled on the GP circuit since 2004, 7 seasons ago. Lacoste medaled on the GP just last season when she beat Cynthia to take bronze at Skate Canada. Honestly, I don't see either Amelie or Cynthia making the podium at Worlds, even with their best skates. They are at the same inconsistent, unreliable level. One (Lacoste) just happened to keep better track of her spin and footwork levels in both segments of this competition and it paid dividends for her.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by lise View Post
    what if this was a competition that Joannie competed it and bombed?
    Then they still should send Amelie if that is what the rule book or protocol prescribes. Yes, it is stupid but it is the rule that is stupid and needs a change. You cannot change the rule now after seeing who won. It would be extremely unfair and disrespectful to the champion. Now here is my question: Does Skate Canada have a clear set of rules regarding the selection process like Japan has?

  7. #52
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    The rule is not set in stone; the committee makes the final selection.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Only in her wildest dreams is Phaneuf even in the same breath as Rochette and Chouinard. Phaneuf has not even medaled on the GP circuit since 2004, 7 seasons ago. Lacoste medaled on the GP just last season when she beat Cynthia to take bronze at Skate Canada. Honestly, I don't see either Amelie or Cynthia making the podium at Worlds, even with their best skates. They are at the same inconsistent, unreliable level. One (Lacoste) just happened to keep better track of her spin and footwork levels in both segments of this competition and it paid dividends for her.
    Agree 100%. I hope they will send Amelie. While others do have a point that Phaneuf would have beaten her if she'd gotten higher levels on footwork and spins (and while I admit she is capable of doing so) a competitor of her age and experience should NOT be losing levels (and certainly should not be getting level 1's and 2's) at a competition of this imporance. If it were one spin that would be a different thing but it was multiple elements. To me that it is so easy to fix kind of makes it worse.

    Unfortunately I do agree also that Phaneuf is probably the 'best hope' of a top 10 finish, but she is TERRIBLY inconsistent and has had many prior chances to make an impact at worlds. I think Amelie should be given her chance.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by lise View Post
    The rule is not set in stone; the committee makes the final selection.
    So it is ambiguous enough that a skater would equate winning the National with earning the spot? If so, send Amelie, or it would be a great insult to her efforts and hard work. And Skate Canada should make a clear rule for the future so that new national champions will expect to have another contest (i.e., 4CC) if they fail to satisfy the specified criterion.

  10. #55
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    So it is ambiguous enough that a skater would equate winning the National with earning the spot? If so, send Amelie, or it would be a great insult to her efforts and hard work. And Skate Canada should make a clear rule for the future so that new national champions will expect to have another contest (i.e., 4CC) if they fail to satisfy the specified criterion.
    I mean these are all nice in theory (I DO think there are always advantages to clearer rules) but I think there are times when discretion is neccessary and that overall it is ok for the federation to retain that discretion. As someone posited before, what if it was Joannie who just totally bombed? I DO NOT mean Phaneuf is in the same league or that this is neccessarily a case where discretion should be used, but to me it's obvious that if it was Joannie discretion would be neccessary as she'd be the obvious choice to earn two spots. Or what if a skater who was clearly the best (again, let's pretend Joannie is still competing) is injured or falls ill right before the competition but can recover before Worlds? It would be in Canada's best interest to be able to send that person.

    You could say 'well okay then, make a rule where it says if a person who has achieved at least X much is sick or injured discretion can be used' or 'if a person who has achieved X much has a really bad day discretion can be used' but that ignores the fact that skating is neccessarily relative (for instance, what if Canada had both Joannie and someone else about as good as Joannie and Joannie was injured or fell apart? There are lots of nuanes here that I think discretion is the best way to account for.

    It does make it less certain for skaters, but I think overall that is just the breaks.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Only in her wildest dreams is Phaneuf even in the same breath as Rochette and Chouinard. Phaneuf has not even medaled on the GP circuit since 2004, 7 seasons ago. Lacoste medaled on the GP just last season when she beat Cynthia to take bronze at Skate Canada. Honestly, I don't see either Amelie or Cynthia making the podium at Worlds, even with their best skates. They are at the same inconsistent, unreliable level. One (Lacoste) just happened to keep better track of her spin and footwork levels in both segments of this competition and it paid dividends for her.

    We already know Cynthia cant medal at Worlds even at her best since she skated her best at the 2010 Worlds, miracelously doing a 7 triple long program which nobody ever probably believed they would see from her, and failed to medal in a major splatfest where Lepisto bombed her long program and still won bronze, and Yu Na Kim bombed the short and sleptwalked through the long to an easy silver. If the judges werent willing to give her a medal right then and there, it will never happen, under any circumstances. Anyone thinking otherwise is clearly delusional. Both are top 10 potential on a good day, very easy to be out of it on a bad one. No major difference really except one is young and still improving, while one has already maxed out at what she is.

  12. #57
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Congratulations to Amelie on her first National Title. I hope the committee sends her to Worlds.

  13. #58
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    per CBC: "Canada can enter just one skater in women's singles at the world championships in March in Nice, France, and Skate Canada CEO William Thompson said there's a chance they'll wait until after the Four Continents Championships to determine whether they'll send Lacoste or Phaneuf to France."

  14. #59
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    Slipchuk just said on tv that's what they're leaning towards. Kind of harsh for Lacoste but hopefully it drives both of them to a good 4CC showing.
    Last edited by Kissx3; 01-22-2012 at 05:57 PM.

  15. #60
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    Just bribe Joannie to compete next season. She can skip competition for a year and still land a fully rotated lutz and flip.

    Is Osmond actually eligible to compete at 4CC/Worlds? Don't those skaters have to meet the season best standard, and I don't think she has.

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