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Thread: Free Dance

  1. #31
    I for one agrees with the judges when it comes to Gilles/Poirier. If you take a closer look at Poirier compared to Islam and Hill, you can see a vast difference in quality, sheer skating technique. HE is much better, and Piper, while not as good her partner, is just as good as Paul and Ralph. With more training and more experience, Gilles/Poirier can become extremely good.

    Btw, does anyone know why TSN has geoblocked half of the videos. I can't watch Men's or Ladies competitions. :(

  2. #32
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILoveFigures View Post
    I for one agrees with the judges when it comes to Gilles/Poirier. If you take a closer look at Poirier compared to Islam and Hill, you can see a vast difference in quality, sheer skating technique. HE is much better, and Piper, while not as good her partner, is just as good as Paul and Ralph. With more training and more experience, Gilles/Poirier can become extremely good.

    Btw, does anyone know why TSN has geoblocked half of the videos. I can't watch Men's or Ladies competitions. :(
    I totally agree with everything you posted and, actually, I believe Paul Poirier is a better skater than both Weaver/Poje as well.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    If W/P don't medal this year at Worlds, I'm gonna predict G/P beating them next season. Which would be a crying shame.
    I highly doubt that. W/P are already good enough to be contending for a medal at the World level right now, while G/P wont be for several years atleast (probably not until after Sochi, if ever). Skate Canada may be increasingly corrupt but they arent stupid.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILoveFigures View Post
    I for one agrees with the judges when it comes to Gilles/Poirier. If you take a closer look at Poirier compared to Islam and Hill, you can see a vast difference in quality, sheer skating technique. HE is much better, and Piper, while not as good her partner, is just as good as Paul and Ralph. With more training and more experience, Gilles/Poirier can become extremely good.

    Btw, does anyone know why TSN has geoblocked half of the videos. I can't watch Men's or Ladies competitions. :(

    Paul may be better but with Piper the team is definitely not 16 points better than R/H or P/I and is just not that close to the top. The Programs are gimmicky and ridiculous smiling does not count as connection. W/P have worked long and hard and are a dyno team on ice now. G/P b eing so close is a mockery.

  5. #35
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    All I have to say is that this overscoring of G/P at this event will do a disservice to them in the future. Yes Paul Poirier is a fine skater - but so was Ben Agosto (who I think was vastly underappreciated). It's a team effort - otherwise Paul Poirier should be skating singles. And really Vanessa Crone is one hell of a skater as well.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyhey View Post
    All I have to say is that this overscoring of G/P at this event will do a disservice to them in the future. Yes Paul Poirier is a fine skater - but so was Ben Agosto (who I think was vastly underappreciated). It's a team effort - otherwise Paul Poirier should be skating singles. And really Vanessa Crone is one hell of a skater as well.
    Totally agree. I thought they should have been nowhere near V/M. Tracy Wilson seemed a bit upset that V/M were not being recognized for their intricate holds and just the quality of their dance because it looks so easy. For G/P to score over 100 for that dance is unacceptable. They skated much of the dance in hand to hand hold. When Piper was stroking clockwise you could tell that she struggled. As well the dance lacked good transitions. It was set up for tricks. I found it interesting but should have scored 90 at best. I would ask that people re-watch their dance and look at whether they actually danced or free skated the program.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILoveFigures View Post
    Btw, does anyone know why TSN has geoblocked half of the videos. I can't watch Men's or Ladies competitions. :(
    Men: I know Japan sometimes airs other National events, and I can imagine the international rights to Canadians might have come into play.

    Ladies: Because .... yeah, I got nothin'

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan View Post
    Totally agree. I thought they should have been nowhere near V/M. Tracy Wilson seemed a bit upset that V/M were not being recognized for their intricate holds and just the quality of their dance because it looks so easy. For G/P to score over 100 for that dance is unacceptable. They skated much of the dance in hand to hand hold. When Piper was stroking clockwise you could tell that she struggled. As well the dance lacked good transitions. It was set up for tricks. I found it interesting but should have scored 90 at best. I would ask that people re-watch their dance and look at whether they actually danced or free skated the program.
    ITA. That's what bothers me so much about G/P's results. Their program was just tricks...no dancing, and no difficult transitions. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I actually think that ice dance programs should involve actual dancing. Tricks are great for exhibition, and I think that they can often be successfully incorporated into competative programs, but this one was just one trick after another. That's not dancing, thats fluff. V/M, W/P, P/I and even R/H (though not as well as the former three, IMO) all danced last night. Their moves might not have been as flashy, but there was true difficulty there, and all of them made it look quite effortless. Furthermore, their choreography actually matched the music. The moves weren't just tricks for the sake of tricks, but actually followed the accents within the music. They all tried for an emotional connection to each other and the music as well. I was particularly impressed with the fact that W/P, V/M and P/I all made an effort to look at each other at various points during the footwork sequences in an attempt to maintain an emotional link through the difficulty. It's something few teams do. I'm not saying that G/P wont be able to do all of this someday, just that they shouldn't be getting scored as highly as these teams until they can.

  9. #39
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    Possibly when the men's final is broadcast today, there will be clips from the men's short program shown?

    I get an error code when I try to view the men's SP, rather than a geoblock notice.

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    actually, I believe Paul Poirier is a better skater than both Weaver/Poje as well.
    museksk8r
    Poirier may be a better skater, Giles may be a better skater but we are not comparing Poirier to Poje and Weaver to Giles, we are comparing the dance pair G/Pwith dance pair W/P and the dance pair G/P at the moment is much, much worse than team W/P. Judges should not be giving marks for what may be or may be not. Judges should give marks for what is. And presently dance pair G/P is not only much worse than dance pair W/P but is also worse than dance pair P/I. . Overall much worse. In my view.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi View Post
    Paul may be better but with Piper the team is definitely not 16 points better than R/H or P/I and is just not that close to the top. The Programs are gimmicky and ridiculous smiling does not count as connection. W/P have worked long and hard and are a dyno team on ice now. G/P b eing so close is a mockery.
    I'm not qualified to debate scoring (for the record I was surprised how far ahead of fourth G/P were) but imo ridiculous smiling doesn't light up an audience the way G/P did yesterday. Sure audiences don't know a twizzle from a mazurka, but they know what they like and ridiculous smiling isn't it. And I don't really buy conspiracy theories when it comes to the judging. I think the judges are susceptible to the same thing I am - seeing a star in the making with Paul Poirier and being bedazzled by that. With C/P he was obviously talented but it almost always looked like he was skating with his older sister. The difference with Gilles is amaziing. It's like he grew up overnight. I could barely take my eyes off him and I bet the judges were the same. C/P had trouble reaching the audience. Whatever you think of their technical skills, G/P have already achieved that.

  12. #42
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    Just watched the G/P FD, and all I can add to the discussion is that you should look at Piper's feet. Her edges are not very deep and I think with a much strict technically panel internationally you are looking at low 90s or even high 80s for that dance. Even when accounting for nationals inflation, that 100+ score is crazy.

    I agree with an earlier poster that Skate Canada is doing them no favors by giving them these inflated scores because I think they will get hammered internationally.

  13. #43
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katia View Post
    actually, I believe Paul Poirier is a better skater than both Weaver/Poje as well.
    museksk8r
    Poirier may be a better skater, Giles may be a better skater but we are not comparing Poirier to Poje and Weaver to Giles, we are comparing the dance pair G/Pwith dance pair W/P and the dance pair G/P at the moment is much, much worse than team W/P. Judges should not be giving marks for what may be or may be not. Judges should give marks for what is. And presently dance pair G/P is not only much worse than dance pair W/P but is also worse than dance pair P/I. . Overall much worse. In my view.
    But because ice dancing happens on skates and on ice, the quality of skating skills is a very important component that the judges look for. This isn't just dancing that is judged, but dancing and skating. This is not a ballroom dancing competition. Paul/Islam were far more cautious than Gilles/Poirier, who really attacked all of their program. In the beginning of their dance, there was actually a minor strange moment when Alexandra and Mitchell had a slight collision that I certainly noticed as awkward and a definite sign of their nerves last night. Paul/Islam also had a minor unison break in their twizzle section. I completely realize that at this point in time, Piper and Paul as a team are not at the level of Kaitlyn and Andrew as a team, so you are not presenting some revelation to me that I don't already know. And really, how in the world should Gilles and Poirier as a team be where Weaver and Poje are as a team when they haven't even been together a full year yet and haven't even skated on the GP circuit together, let alone have the experience of a 4CC, Worlds, or Olympics together. Ice dance is the most subjective of the skating disciplines and different people perceive and judge different things. Components like attack, unison, and speed stand out more to a judge's eyes than the slighter nuances like looks and facial expressions.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    But because ice dancing happens on skates and on ice, the quality of skating skills is a very important component that the judges look for. This isn't just dancing that is judged, but dancing and skating. This is not a ballroom dancing competition. Paul/Islam were far more cautious than Gilles/Poirier, who really attacked all of their program. In the beginning of their dance, there was actually a minor strange moment when Alexandra and Mitchell had a slight collision that I certainly noticed as awkward and a definite sign of their nerves last night. Paul/Islam also had a minor unison break in their twizzle section. I completely realize that at this point in time, Piper and Paul as a team are not at the level of Kaitlyn and Andrew as a team, so you are not presenting some revelation to me that I don't already know. And really, how in the world should Gilles and Poirier as a team be where Weaver and Poje are as a team when they haven't even been together a full year yet and haven't even skated on the GP circuit together, let alone have the experience of a 4CC, Worlds, or Olympics together. Ice dance is the most subjective of the skating disciplines and different people perceive and judge different things. Components like attack, unison, and speed stand out more to a judge's eyes than the slighter nuances like looks and facial expressions.
    It is far easier to attack a program in a hand to hand hold. P/I may have appeared to have crashed as they were close enough for that to happen. G/P were never close enough..so therefore it did not happen. As well, I feel G/P had a free dance that minimized their weakness right now which is matching leg line. P/ I have a fabulous matching leg line which you can see as they are skating close together.

  15. #45
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    But the judges are saying that G/P are close to where W/P are at, and ahead of where C/P were at when they ended.

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