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Thread: Men - Free Program

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    ...that doesn't mean there isn't a time and a place for simplicity...It all comes down to the music and the character of the program.
    The simplest passage can be the most challenging for a pianist at times for it relies heavily on interpretation rather than on techniques to make it interesting, passionate or lively. It is the time when a pianist reveals his true colors without the mask of busy streams of notes. The simple movements of Jeffrey Buttle's Prelude in C Sharp Minor by Rachmaninoff prior to his first jump spoke a thousand words to me.

  2. #182
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Exactly.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    My husband does this with any skater who stalks jumps and in particular, Stojko (when he was competing), Plushenko and Joubert. He likes skaters whose jumps come out of nowhere.
    And what would you say to your husband? I can imagine something like "oh be quiet, you are rushing him (skater falls), see!"
    Last edited by jettasian; 01-25-2012 at 07:39 PM.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    The simplest passage can be the most challenging for a pianist at times for it relies heavily on interpretation rather than on techniques to make it interesting, passionate or lively. It is the time when a pianist reveals his true colors without the mask of busy streams of notes. The simple movements of Jeffrey Buttle's Prelude in C Sharp Minor by Rachmaninoff prior to his first jump spoke a thousand words to me.
    Do you honestly believe that's what Stojko and Plushenko were doing when they were stalking their Quads - you know, Jeff Buttle like moments?

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Do you honestly believe that's what Stojko and Plushenko were doing when they were stalking their Quads - you know, Jeff Buttle like moments?
    No. Sorry, my post has nothing to do with Stojko and Plushenko. It was just my thought inspired by reading the previous posts.

  6. #186
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    Very good!!!!

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Maybe your husband needs some medication to help improve his patience, in addition to an understanding of what dramatic build-up is. Rewarding a skater for doing as many movements as possible, when it does not go with the music, is the same as rewarding a filmmaker for cutting every 3 seconds within the scene just because they can. Just because you can add more, that doesn't mean it produces a greater effect. Sometimes it detracts, in fact. If you stop to think about it, this is the same as the Canadian criticism of so many Russian costumes. It's something that everyone in fashion is aware of; intricately sewing tons of feathers and sparkly pieces onto a dress maybe be extremely difficult, but that doesn't mean the dress is something anyone wants to wear.

    Attention spans around the World have likely dropped as a result of how modern media is handled, people have been trained to become restless at slow pacing of television/film, and such is sadly the case with how figure skating is evolving as a result of how the CoP is being handled. Obviously stalking jumps too much is a bad thing but that doesn't mean there isn't a time and a place for simplicity and for relatively long approaches into jumps, with nothing but simple movements leading up to it. It all comes down to the music and the character of the program. In film, sometimes you want quick cuts and sometimes you want long cuts. It's no different in figure skating. If we only reward tons of transitions in programs, then the sport is losing much of what makes it special and losing a vast amount of potential variety. Who wants to watch nothing but action films, if you are an adult of non-[color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color] intelligence?
    I'm not quite sure I agree with your analogy, but can you choose an example where a long buildup to a jump is appropriate? And isn't is long shot, not long cut, or do I not know what you're talking about. I mean, how Adam Rippon approached his 3A was absolutely ridiculous.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    No. Sorry, my post has nothing to do with Stojko and Plushenko. It was just my thought inspired by reading the previous posts.
    Well, BOP was just claiming stalking jumps = artistry, right before your post. The proximity of your posts automatically create a link, thus leading him to react with : to your Jeff Buttle comparison as though you support his claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I'm not quite sure I agree with your analogy, but can you choose an example where a long buildup to a jump is appropriate? And isn't is long shot, not long cut, or do I not know what you're talking about. I mean, how Adam Rippon approached his 3A was absolutely ridiculous.
    Stalking ain't artistry. Someone who can't differentiate between stalking and choreographical pausing will not be able to discuss about presentation in figure skating with knowledge or credibility and I don't mean you with this comment.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Obviously stalking jumps too much is a bad thing but that doesn't mean there isn't a time and a place for simplicity and for relatively long approaches into jumps, with nothing but simple movements leading up to it. It all comes down to the music and the character of the program.
    How would you rate Michelle Kwan's Aranjuez in this regard, as skated at 2003 Worlds? To me it had little choreography except skating from one jump to the next. And yet, it held my attention throughout and was altogether satisfying to the soul.[/QUOTE]

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    The proximity of your posts automatically create a link, thus leading him to react with : to your Jeff Buttle comparison as though you support his claim.
    But don't you think my post deserves a even without the presumed link? Please say "yes", it's good for my ego.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I'm not quite sure I agree with your analogy, but can you choose an example where a long buildup to a jump is appropriate?
    Would you say that the first two jumps of this program (Michelle Kwan Aranjuez 2003 Worlds) features long entries with minimal choreography (not counting wrist-twirling)?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfluAux0Sf0

    Michelle knew what the people wanted and she gave it to them, straight no chaser.

  12. #192
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    I would, but I also consider that program a little boring - I wonder if Blades et al think thats appropriate or if those movements "speak a thousand words."
    Last edited by ImaginaryPogue; 01-25-2012 at 08:33 PM.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    The simplest passage can be the most challenging for a pianist at times for it relies heavily on interpretation rather than on techniques to make it interesting, passionate or lively. It is the time when a pianist reveals his true colors without the mask of busy streams of notes. The simple movements of Jeffrey Buttle's Prelude in C Sharp Minor by Rachmaninoff prior to his first jump spoke a thousand words to me.
    That's sort of what the great pianist Vladimir Horowitz said about Schumann's Traumerei, a rather simple piano piece (e.g. even I was able to play Traumerei when I was a child). IIRC, he always grumbled that he wasn't able to get it right and that was why he played it as an encore often....yet this was a man who gave the greatest performances ever to the infinitely more complex and difficult Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 3, arguably the most technically challenging piece in the classical repertoire.


    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Well, BOP was just claiming stalking jumps = artistry, right before your post.
    No, he didn't. BOP said there could be a time and a place for a simple, long approach to a jump if fits the music/character of that particular bit of the program. That is definitely not the same as saying stalking jumps is necessarily equated with artistry.

    (Caveat lector: I'm NOT referring to Chan here) Although I too like seeing jumps spring out of seemingly nowhere from transitions, I sometime tire of random split-second (ugly) spirals/besti squat/random turns/etc before a jump that adds nothing to the program, doesn't fit the character of the music, and is clearly there to hit up some TR points.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    That's sort of what the great pianist Vladimir Horowitz said about Schumann's Traumerei, a rather simple piano piece (e.g. even I was able to play Traumerei when I was a child). IIRC, he always grumbled that he wasn't able to get it right and that was why he played it as an encore often....yet this was a man who gave the greatest performances ever to the infinitely more complex and difficult Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 3, arguably the most technically challenging piece in the classical repertoire.
    Finally, somebody knows piano and can appreciate what I was talking about. It is a concept that seems easy to get, but it becomes vividly true only when one has climbed the high technical mountains.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Are you saying that a skater who does steps and footwork the length of the ice and then does a quad should have exactly the same score as someone who spends 20 seconds stroking and building speed until my husband yells "Jump already!" at the TV screen? Assuming of course that the actual quad is of similar quality.
    Hahahahahahaha! Can't. Stop. Laughing.

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