Takahashi's SP vs. Chan's

[Blades of Passion]

He could change feet with a jump in his combination spin to get level 4, but if he loses speed and centering it wouldn't be worth it. I'm assuming they've tried and he couldn't execute the maneuver well enough for it to be worthwhile, but perhaps this is one code-whoring point they missed and he can add in next season.

[Bluebonnet]

Bluebonnet, the three-fall skates are actually interesting in terms of comparison. In Chan's two three-fall long programs, he scored PCS of 81.30 (CoR, 2010) and 84.06 (Japan Open, 2011). Both times, his PCS was lower than Dai's at Nationals 2011/12, where Takahashi scored 86.90. Indeed, it's fascinating to compare the Japan Open and Japanese Nationals scores for both

Chan's LP: TES: 159.93 (78.87, PCS: 84.06)
Dai's LP: 158.55 (TES: 74.65, PCS: 86.90)

Because Chan is so good at base-valuing, he actually is held up a lot less on PCS than Daisuke was here - Dai's messy elements were worth 12 points less than his program component score, whereas Chan's flawed elements scored six points less than his PCS. Now, this isn't like Abbott getting twenty points more on PCS than TES (CoR, 2011) - or we could compare it to Dai getting held up by an epic 25 points in the Japan Open, but it's still notable. You see just how much Chan's smart program construction helps him absorb those errors, and how much is overall skating strength - his strong spins, his amazing footwork, and stronger jumps (when landed, of course) with all those insane transitions.

Thanks, IP! Great way to see it!

[fscric]

Bluebonnet, the three-fall skates are actually interesting in terms of comparison. In Chan's two three-fall long programs, he scored PCS of 81.30 (CoR, 2010) and 84.06 (Japan Open, 2011). Both times, his PCS was lower than Dai's at Nationals 2011/12, where Takahashi scored 86.90. Indeed, it's fascinating to compare the Japan Open and Japanese Nationals scores for both

Chan's LP: TES: 159.93 (78.87, PCS: 84.06)
Dai's LP: 158.55 (TES: 74.65, PCS: 86.90)

Because Chan is so good at base-valuing, he actually is held up a lot less on PCS than Daisuke was here - Dai's messy elements were worth 12 points less than his program component score, whereas Chan's flawed elements scored six points less than his PCS. Now, this isn't like Abbott getting twenty points more on PCS than TES (CoR, 2011) - or we could compare it to Dai getting held up by an epic 25 points in the Japan Open, but it's still notable. You see just how much Chan's smart program construction helps him absorb those errors, and how much is overall skating strength - his strong spins, his amazing footwork, and stronger jumps (when landed, of course) with all those insane transitions.

Thanks.

[Boeing787]

He could change feet with a jump in his combination spin to get level 4, but if he loses speed and centering it wouldn't be worth it. I'm assuming they've tried and he couldn't execute the maneuver well enough for it to be worthwhile, but perhaps this is one code-whoring point they missed and he can add in next season.

To my knowledged, since he has used jump to get level 4 in LP, he cannot use it in SP. Correct me if I am wrong.

[jettasian]

Patrick's body is not very flexible. He has never done a Bielmann (although he said jokingly that he didn't want to lose respect from other men), and he hasn't done a donut for years. If he can do either one, or an A spin or Y spin, then he can bring back the spin to level four. But I don't think it's worthy. I'd add another quad to sp.

Oh God, the donute, A and Y spins are the ugliest spins ever! I hate all those 3 spins, really. I believe Yuna did the Y spin at Olympic...I thought...lady, put your leg down... that's not pretty.

[jettasian]

He could change feet with a jump in his combination spin to get level 4, but if he loses speed and centering it wouldn't be worth it. I'm assuming they've tried and he couldn't execute the maneuver well enough for it to be worthwhile, but perhaps this is one code-whoring point they missed and he can add in next season.

Or perhaps he doesn't need this code-whoring point for now.

[Blades of Passion]

To my knowledged, since he has used jump to get level 4 in LP, he cannot use it in SP. Correct me if I am wrong.

Certain elements of Death Spirals in Pairs programs are the only thing that are restricted to "once per competition".

Also, Patrick Chan doesn't use a jump to execute a change-of-foot anywhere in his long program (and neither of his combination spins there are Level 4 either).

In fact, you are allowed to use the "change of foot executed by a jump" feature more than once in the same program and still have it count as a level feature for every spin where it is used.

[SkateFiguring]

These days, Chan actually has higher TES than PCS in the second half of the season, as in Nationals 2011 and 2012, Worlds 2011, GPF 2011, and LP GPF 2010, with SP PCS just 0.28 higher than TES. Let's see if this continues in 4CC. I don't believe Daisuke ever has PCS lower than his TES the latest two seasons, with his PCS significantly higher at times.

Oh God, the donute, A and Y spins are the ugliest spins ever! I hate all those 3 spins, really. I believe Yuna did the Y spin at Olympic...I thought...lady, put your leg down... that's not pretty.

[fscric]

He could change feet with a jump in his combination spin to get level 4, but if he loses speed and centering it wouldn't be worth it. I'm assuming they've tried and he couldn't execute the maneuver well enough for it to be worthwhile, but perhaps this is one code-whoring point they missed and he can add in next season.

I'm quite perplexed by this use of phrase here, isn't maximizing point the spirit of entering a competition?

In any case, I'd prefer it to attention-whoring.

[Bluebonnet]

Patrick's body is not very flexible. He has never done a Bielmann (although he said jokingly that he didn't want to lose respect from other men), and he hasn't done a donut for years. If he can do either one, or an A spin or Y spin, then he can bring back the spin to level four. But I don't think it's worthy. I'd add another quad to sp.

Oh, I'm so happy that he's never done Bielmann and don't do donut spin any more. They are ugly in men! I agree with you. Add another quad would be good.

[Blades of Passion]

I'm quite perplexed by this use of phrase here, isn't maximizing point the spirit of entering a competition?

That phrase refers to doing something in order to add technical points to the program, even though it objectively hurts the quality of an element and/or the program as a whole. When judges don't properly punish these things in their scores, it gives skaters the incentive to plan their programs as such.

[jettasian]

I still can't believe Donut, A and Y spins are level 4. They should have -GOE just for their ugliness! Whoever even had thought of creating such spins...

That phrase refers to doing something in order to add technical points to the program, even though it objectively hurts the quality of an element and/or the program as a whole. When judges don't properly punish these things in their scores, it gives skaters the incentive to plan their programs as such.

I don't think changing a spin (increasing its difficulty) would hurt a program as a whole. Footwork, maybe, speed, maybe.

[Blades of Passion]

I don't think changing a spin (increasing its difficulty) would hurt a program as a whole.

Oh really?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP-3VXkNBc&t=2m38s

So you're telling me the painfully awkward way he tried to hold that last spin position for 8 revolutions in order to gain .4 extra base value points didn't hurt the program (not to mention the quality of the element)?

[let`s talk]

Indeed, it's fascinating to compare the Japan Open and Japanese Nationals scores

Lol at this desperate attempt. The scores gained at Nationals and at international events cannot be compared a priori. Yeah, when the valid points to back up the statement are not available, cheating with facts is the only way left.

[Bluebonnet]

Lol at this desperate attempt. The scores gained at Nationals and at international events cannot be compared a priori. Yeah, when the valid points to back up the statement are not available, cheating with facts is the only way left.

There is no desperate attempt here. Or you mean Jeremy Abbott was desperate to compare his own National scores with Patrick Chan's international scores? It's another way to look at it or it's a fun way to look at it from different angle.