Takahashi's SP vs. Chan's

[jettasian]

Just because you keep saying that, doesn't mean it's true. Same as you keep saying Dai is overscored proves nothing other that your typical bias toward Dai.

Now observe how your banal cliche you-all-bias works.

It's not because I keep saying that, it's a known fact from the judges, from the people who actually watch skating, unless someone who has nothing to say but just like to stir troubles, Chan-bashing whenever they can, and spread lies and baseless accusations.

[Blades of Passion]

It's not a "known fact". Seriously, just stop.

Contrapuntal density is not about how many notes within a time frame. Instead, it concerns the number of voices (counterpoints).

But there aren't ever more than 2 going on at once (the same as in "Blues for Klook") in Chan's version of Aranjeuz, are there? There are a greater variety of voices used throughout the piece but not all at the same time. It's always guitar+string or horn+string or guitar+horn or string+woodwind. Or am I not recalling this correctly?

[Dragonlady]

I never automatically give anyone a pass or a fail. I look at every program and performance and judge it as it is. In fact, I tend to have polar opposite opinions on the programs of skaters from season to season. It doesn't really matter who they are, that's not what I care about it and it's extremely tiresome that the only argument anyone can ever come up with is "oh, you're just biased against Patrick." Um, yeah, I'm biased in the sense that he rarely performs at a level I consider to be deserving of some of the scores he receives. Should I instead lie and pretend to love his work and be in agreement with competition results?

I have also noticed a bias in your posts in regard to Lori Nichols choreography. You don't seem to think much of Nichols choreography and criticize it at every turn. This renders your opinions of programs choreographed by Nichol as moot.

I love Takahashi and his ability to become the music. But I also recognize that he is doing less complex choreography with less detail that Patrick. Both skaters are prone to making mistakes, but then they are doing more difficult elements than nearly everybody else. And Takahashi is more prone to letting his performance go when his jumps aren't solid. Patrick never gives up on his program which is why his PCS tends to hold up better with mistakes.

[Blades of Passion]

I have also noticed a bias in your posts in regard to Lori Nichols choreography. You don't seem to think much of Nichols choreography and criticize it at every turn. This renders your opinions of programs choreographed by Nichol as moot.

More fail reasoning. Not caring for much of Lori's recent work doesn't mean I have any kind of misplaced bias. It means I don't like the work, for the exact reasons I always describe.

Do you even understand how criticism works? Someone's view is not "rendered moot" as a result of not exalting a popular person constantly. There are a sizable number of Hollywood films released every year that make $200+ million dollars and quite a lot of them receive poor reviews overall. That doesn't mean the critics' opinions are rendered worthless by the financial success of the product (although certain studio executives would have you think that way, as you are trying to do here).

People seem to be mistaking bias with an informed opinion. The bias here is rather your own FOR Lori's work, since you always defend it as perfect without any relevant reasoning.

[jettasian]

It's not a "known fact". Seriously, just stop.

Just because you refuse to see or accept it, that doesn't mean it's untrue. And this is coming from someone who thinks Jason Brown is already better artisically than Chan has ever done. I have to laugh everytime I type this.

[seniorita]

When someone's mind is already made up (you know, already fixated to believe "Chan will win no matter what", "Chan's mark will always be inflated", "Chan will win with 10 falls", "Chan has 4 falls cushions" etc), facts will never going to convince them. And regardless how Chan skates, the result for them is always the same.

Yeah, Chan gets high marks because all the judges in the world have a hidden agenda.

Do judges have a secret agenda for Daisuke, or do they overscore all other skaters but coming to Chan are objective? I ll keep that post of yours for future reference, just in case for the 4cc or later.

[Tonichelle]

Just because you refuse to see or accept it, that doesn't mean it's untrue. And this is coming from someone who thinks Jason Brown is already better artisically than Chan has ever done. I have to laugh everytime I type this.

again, doesn't this go both ways?

[skatinginbc]

But there aren't ever more than 2 going on at once (the same as in "Blues for Klook") in Chan's version of Aranjeuz, are there? There are a greater variety of voices used throughout the piece but not all at the same time.

Hm, a lay person can usually catch only two or three voices at a time. So how can I explain this? Let me try:
Exercise #1: Listen to the guitar alone. There are two different voices. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv4TWYesMBE#t=5m000s) Now, pay attention to the background. Can you hear the violin? So there are three voices going on at once in that section.
Exercise #2: It starts with chords (six notes simultaneously at every stroke) made by the guitar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv4TWYesMBE#t=0m036s) to accompany the dominant melodic voice (the oboe) that comes moments later, soon joined by the violins II and cellos, and shortly violins I and violas....

[Olympia]

Okay, BC, I don't have music training, just years of self-taught listening, so you'll have to break it down for me. When you say there are two voices in the guitar alone, do you mean (because I couldn't catch it in that little extract) that two strings are being plucked at once, or that when a single note is plucked, it has undertone vibrations that are another note? (I recall one junior high school music class where the teacher hit a note on the piano and made us listen for the other tones.) I know that acoustic guitar is especially good for learning about this kind of thing, because it's got such clear vibrations; it's not some synthesized electronic construct.

Sorry to butt in, but I can't figure this out for myself. Thanks!

[jettasian]

Do judges have a secret agenda for Daisuke, or do they overscore all other skaters but coming to Chan are objective? I ll keep that post of yours for future reference, just in case for the 4cc or later.

Huh? I advise you read the whole post before making any assumption.

[jettasian]

again, doesn't this go both ways?

Not really. I don't make assumptions and declare those as facts.

[skatinginbc]

When you say there are two voices in the guitar alone, do you mean (because I couldn't catch it in that little extract) that two strings are being plucked at once..

In Exercise #1, the second melody comes a quaver later an octave higher than the first (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC91sfBYCF4#t=9m023s).

[Olympia]

Okay, thanks, BC.

[Blades of Passion]

Interesting, BC. Those aspects of music are things I'd probably like to take classes on if I could find the time. I used to do singing competitions and know how to read some music, but there's a whole lot more out there to learn (and I have to kick myself for not trying to learn the piano and guitar as a kid).

[skatinginbc]

I used to do singing competitions and know how to read some music....

Actually, your questioning about the contrapuntal density of Aranjeuz is not completely wrong. Compared to Baroque music, Aranjeuz makes minimal use of counterpoints. Even Exercise #1 is a very simple type of canon, nothing fancy about it. I think the composer feared that the guitar might be overwhelmed by the orchestra if too many voices are present.