Takahashi's SP vs. Chan's

[Mathman]

Probably IN. That's about the closest to artistry in PCS.

I think so, too. Jeremy puts a lot of thought and effort into matching movement with music, as well as into weaving elements and transitional moves into a coherent artistic vision.

In contrast, Patrick seems more happy-go-lucky in throwing stuff out there, relying on his technique to pull it off.

I don't necessarily agree with Jeremy. Chan's Take Five is lighter fare. But if we take the program for what it is and do not try to impose upon it some sort of preconception about what constitutes "art," it is a compact little gem.

[SkateFiguring]

I think so, too. Jeremy puts a lot of thought and effort into matching movement with music, as well as into weaving elements and transitional moves into a coherent artistic vision.

In contrast, Patrick seems more happy-go-lucky in throwing stuff out there, relying on his technique to pull it off.

I don't necessarily agree with Jeremy. Chan's Take Five is lighter fare. But if we take the program for what it is and do not try to impose upon it some sort of preconception about what constitutes "art," it is a compact little gem.

Well, Take Five and some of his show programs are happy-go-lucky. But his two recent LPs are very different in nature and I see him performing and interpreting accordingly.

Jeremy is one of the best performers on skates, and his PCS reflects that. As I said before, it's the high PCS Men who are the most memorable and bringing fans to the sport. As for competitions, PCS involves low risks, thus more reliable and consistent, so if someone with bankable PCS also has the TES to match or almost match, he is a real contender for the biggest podiums. In Jeremy's case, what he needs is jump consistency. Add a successful quad and sky is the limit.

Actually, I'd say exactly the same thing about Daisuke.

[Mathman]

Well, Take Five and some of his show programs are happy-go-lucky. But his two recent LPs are very different in nature and I see him performing and interpreting accordingly.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. To me, this year's free skate shows an artistic depth and maturity that the Phantom program did not quite measure up to. (Plus -- not to be shallow, but -- this year's LP costume is perfect for Patrick. )

[SkateFiguring]

^^^I don't see him do happy-go-lucky in either POTO or Aranjuez.

eta. I've read that his current LP costume makes some fans very happy.

[emma]

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. To me, this year's free skate shows an artistic depth and maturity that the Phantom program did not quite measure up to. (Plus -- not to be shallow, but -- this year's LP costume is perfect for Patrick. )

To me...the different strokes part...is one of the most interesting things about skating; how we can see the same thing and have such different feelings and reactions.

I totally agree with MM and others about Chan's LP this year; and his Phantom last year was amazing especially at Nationals.

About the costume; I half way agree. I love the shirt; the pants is the half part. Love the cut and the black sparkles; wouldn't mind a red waistband. Hate, and I mean hate with depth, the red slash things down the legs. I want to see his gorgeous line and edges - whole leg to the toe, without those bandage like red slashes. Maybe if it was just a thin red cord or thin vertical stripe; but those strips are icky to me. That said, love his skating and loves these programs. I love Dai's and Abbot's too and would be hard pressed to rank in which order, other than to say there is just something about Chan's Short that l like better than Abbot's even though I appreciate that "character skating" that he is doing and just how hard it is.

[SkateFiguring]

That red shirt is haute couture quality from Tu LY. The drapey silk, the cut, and all the wonderful details speak class. The sparkles added later make it even more outstanding from further without going OTT. The pants, now, is Ly's usual quirkiness and need getting used to or an acquired taste, but they do get attention although some fans happily focus on the low cut of the shirt.

[Mathman]

For me, Patrick's emoting in the Phantom program was not completely convincing. I think the program would have been just as effective if he had simply done the elements and let his line, posture, and confident grace serve for the "interpretation" part.

In the performance that we just saw of Aranjuez (except for the opening 4T combo), Patrick made the music say: I am Patrick Chan. I can do this. I can do that. And i can look like a million dollars doing it.

That's the Michelle Kwan approach to interpreting music. Make the music your servant not your master.

As for happy-go-lucky, that is not a bad thing, not at all. Never take yourself too seriously. Nobody was more tickled with herself than Michelle after a good performance. "Did I do that? Hee hee."

[emma]

^sorry, I wasn't being clear. I completely agree with you including the Michelle kwan approach - and in fact, think that is a most apt description of what Chan has become and is doing with Aranjuez. My reference to POTO was meant to say - that was great technically, and I so enjoyed is Canadian Nationals performance of it AND, then, or last year, it would have been hard for me to imagine he could perform and interpret better or even differently. I think I thought: this is as good as it gets. I was wrong. This is so much better - imo, and it is a very specific kind of interpretation, just as you put it above (music as my servant).

[SkateFiguring]

Happy-go-lucky is the best thing in life. But artistic interpretation inherently includes variety.

Btw, I love Patrick's Aranjuez, the music. It is a warhorse but many use bastardized versions and interpretations. Patrick's performance is an exquisite mix of grandeur and sadness, as only someone of his skating skills can pull off.

Michida did a Samurai version of Aranjuez in his ex program. Maybe I'd appreciate it more if the choreography and performance were better.

[Bluebonnet]

I don't necessarily agree with Jeremy. Chan's Take Five is lighter fare. But if we take the program for what it is and do not try to impose upon it some sort of preconception about what constitutes "art," it is a compact little gem.

Yes!

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. To me, this year's free skate shows an artistic depth and maturity that the Phantom program did not quite measure up to. (Plus -- not to be shallow, but -- this year's LP costume is perfect for Patrick. )

It's true! I loved his year-end version of POTO from last year, but this Aranjuez LP is more sophisticated in every way.

I love his red shirt. Didn't quite like it at first, but love it now. Not crazy about the stripes on the pants. I prefer the total black pants so the focus could be on the shirt. Seeing him the way he's perfected his programs in the second season, I do wish he could keep this LP next year. Well, he'll probably keep it whether I wish it or not. And I'm happy to say good-bye to Take Five even though it has captured me recently. I'm looking forward to seeing what new SP he'll bring to us.

[SkateFiguring]

I think the idea of the red decorations on Patrick's pants is to provide a continuity so that the contrasting red and black would not visually cut him in two. Of course, with Tu Ly, it has to be a bit wild or quirky. No matter, it's attention grabbing, else the shirt's sophisticated details are too subtle from a distance. It is definitely not the usual skating fare.

We have never discussed his costume even in his fan thread. I blame the thread drift on Mathman's power of influence.

[emma]

I think the idea of the red decorations on Patrick's pants is to provide a continuity so that the contrasting red and black would not visually cut him in two. Of course, with Tu Ly, it has to be a bit wild or quirky. No matter, it's attention grabbing, else the shirt's sophisticated details are too subtle from a distance. It is definitely not the usual skating fare.

We have never discussed his costume even in his fan thread. I blame the thread drift on Mathman's power of influence.

So, not trying to keep this alive or keep repeating myself, but this is precisely why I dislike the red swatches....I get the idea of "not cutting him in too" but these swatches actually make me look at them and not his whole line from top to bottom...it's more like a distraction. Again, I think a thin red cord or or strip down the side would have done the trick without the distraction. For me, these red bandage like things are as icky to my eye as tights over boots for the ladies, just icky and distracting. everything else is perfect

[skatinginbc]

You demand a one foot spread eagle?

Here is an early, experimental form of a one-foot spread eagle (The concept is there though the edge is not): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znMrX...lated#t=0m032s Watch Jeffrey glided sidewise on one foot with his arms spread open in the air--a move inspired by spread eagle, isn't it?
Here is an example of an innovative spread-eagle-like move: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znMrX...lated#t=2m004s

Chan had an interesting move in his POTO (www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPcPTXUh1uA#t=4m014s). Unfortunately as soon as his arms and head slowly reached the final position, the move was over. We never get to see if he could hold that position or not.

Field moves are becoming lost art in the era of CoP. Even a half-circle standard spread eagle in Chan's Aranjuez is a rarity among today men's programs.

[SkateFiguring]

I just think you can't spread one foot just as you can't do one-hand clap.

AFAIK Patrick always has a spread eagle in each of his LP. They are in his show programs too, including multiple ones, switching edges, in Don't Worry Be Happy though his slouchy pants hurt the lines there. Takahashi has lovely spread eagles. There's an American Junior whose name escapes me right now, who has spread eagles with crazy edges. He might be a Senior now.

[Olympia]

So is the look of one foot spread-eagling a skating koan? (sorry...couldn't resist)

I will look for Patrick's spread eagles on YouTube. I'm particularly fond of the move all the way back from the days of John Curry.