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Thread: Can Ashley Wagner be U.S. figure skating's next star?

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    Can Ashley Wagner be U.S. figure skating's next star?

    See article

    Did well in the Grand Prix season, but needs to improve further if going to make more of an impact.
    Last edited by Mao88; 01-26-2012 at 03:16 PM.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting the article.

    I think Ashley has as good a chance as anyone else to win the U.S. championships this weekend. But international success is another story for all of the U.S. ladies.

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    Ashley's been around for a LONG time. She's won a few GP medals, but hasn't really broken through internationally at a major competition. ISU judges just aren't that impressed by her. So no, I don't think she's going to be the next big thing. IMO, Gracie Gold has the vest shot at that.

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    Custom Title macy's Avatar
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    well I think it all depends on how everyone does. a clean Ashley can't beat a clean Alissa. and who knows about mirai.

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    I see Ashley as a potential consistent us national bronze medalist

    the next us star ? Gracie Gold !

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    Quote Originally Posted by macy View Post
    well I think it all depends on how everyone does. a clean Ashley can't beat a clean Alissa. and who knows about mirai.
    A clean Ashley can't beat a clean Mirai either. However, at this time, it might be fair to say Ashley has a far greater shot at being clean than Mirai.

    As for the next big star, I agree it is most likely either Gracie, Mirai (if she ever miraculously OMG gets her act together) or else someone yet unknown.

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    I hope Gracie either does not read the internet hype or has really strong shoulders to carry all the expectations being heaped on her back right now. FSU posters are suggesting she be sent to senior worlds this year. And Hersh suggested a month ago that she could win gold in Sochi.

    That's a lot of hype for a girl that hasn't skated a single senior level competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    I hope Gracie either does not read the internet hype or has really strong shoulders to carry all the expectations being heaped on her back right now. FSU posters are suggesting she be sent to senior worlds this year. And Hersh suggested a month ago that she could win gold in Sochi.

    That's a lot of hype for a girl that hasn't skated a single senior level competition.
    Tuktamysheva won her first 3 senior competitions including 2 Grand Prix events. If the U.S. lacks ambition, simply helps the Russians and I'm sure they won't be complaining about that. The faint hearted don't tend to become champions. She either has it or she hasn't and when she makes her debut or when the hype starts will make very little difference in the long run as to whether she becomes a champion or not. Do you seriously think Sonja Henie, Oksana Baiul, Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, or Tuk herself adopted that attitude? The first four of those names were younger than Gold is now when they became Olympic champions...
    Last edited by Mao88; 01-26-2012 at 05:30 PM.

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    I did not say she doesn't have talent or that she won't do well. But if she buys into the current hype (or anyone in her immediate circle does), it may mentally derail her.

    That said, U.S. fans seem to get on a new junior bandwagon every single year. It seems there is always a junior lady who is going to conquer the world the moment she sets a blade on senior ice. We've been down this road. And they tend not to pan out. So I remain cautious with my excitement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    That said, U.S. fans seem to get on a new junior bandwagon every single year. It seems there is always a junior lady who is going to conquer the world the moment she sets a blade on senior ice. We've been down this road. And they tend not to pan out. So I remain cautious with my excitement.
    That's right and that can be a problem. Moreover, whether Gold merits a place really depends on how well the senior ladies skate
    Last edited by Mao88; 01-26-2012 at 06:34 PM.

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    Ashley hasn't been to Worlds or Four Continents since 2008. She's always done reasonably well in the GP but if she *finally* lands on the World Team this weekend, we'll see what she's made of when she's finally competing in a major competition.

    Expecting another Kwan-like or Sasha-esque US star in the near future is probably not very likely. Though things can change quickly, I guess, it only takes one good 'break-through' season for one of the newbies and who knows what will happen.

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    I'm inclined to say that Gold does not merit a place at senior worlds regardless of how the senior ladies perform. She doesn't have senior programs and adding time and choreography to her LP along with the change in music cuts that would require is not realistic in just two months. Plus she has never skated in a single senior event.

    She, her parents, and her coaching team likely had reasons for deciding that she should remain in juniors this season. After all, she has the skills to pass a senior test, and she is old enough. Whatever the reasons, I doubt that they have suddenly changed their minds.
    Last edited by louisa05; 01-26-2012 at 06:01 PM.

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    No. The best she can do at this point is somehow mount a charge that gives her a respectable Flatt like career and even that is a long shot. At age 20 and after years of being overshadowed in the U.S by Flatt, Zhang, Czisny, and Nagasu, none of whom even became stars outside the U.S themselves, making it onto the World team and placing somewhere around 8th at Worlds this year would be a major victory for her and something to build from. As others have noted she probably has to go clean and have others mess up just to even make the team with 2 spots.

    IMO Wagner's peak as a skater was at Nationals in 2008 where she skated clean and spectacular short and long programs with a triple lutz-triple loop in both, amazing to think considering she can barely do a proper triple lutz solo in ensuing years. Yet she still placed only 3rd behind Nagasu who had major mistakes and Flatt who is supposed to be easy to beat clean on clean. It is hard to imagine her even clean reaching that same level considering she doesnt do any triple-
    triples now and some of her jumps get edge calls, yet that is all that kind of skating gave her then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    I did not say she doesn't have talent or that she won't do well. But if she buys into the current hype (or anyone in her immediate circle does), it may mentally derail her.

    That said, U.S. fans seem to get on a new junior bandwagon every single year. It seems there is always a junior lady who is going to conquer the world the moment she sets a blade on senior ice. We've been down this road. And they tend not to pan out. So I remain cautious with my excitement.
    Exactly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Ashley's been around for a LONG time. She's won a few GP medals, but hasn't really broken through internationally at a major competition. ISU judges just aren't that impressed by her. So no, I don't think she's going to be the next big thing.
    While I agree, keep in mind that Czisny has been around even LONGER. She was competing during the height of the Kwan/Cohen rivalry! She competed senior nats since 2002 (?), didn't win her first medal until 2007, and actually won in 2009.

    Not everyone peaks at 16 or 17.

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