Can Ashley Wagner be U.S. figure skating's next star? | Golden Skate

Can Ashley Wagner be U.S. figure skating's next star?

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
See article

Did well in the Grand Prix season, but needs to improve further if going to make more of an impact.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Thanks for posting the article.

I think Ashley has as good a chance as anyone else to win the U.S. championships this weekend. But international success is another story for all of the U.S. ladies.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Ashley's been around for a LONG time. She's won a few GP medals, but hasn't really broken through internationally at a major competition. ISU judges just aren't that impressed by her. So no, I don't think she's going to be the next big thing. IMO, Gracie Gold has the vest shot at that.
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
well I think it all depends on how everyone does. a clean Ashley can't beat a clean Alissa. and who knows about mirai.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I see Ashley as a potential consistent us national bronze medalist

the next us star ? Gracie Gold ! :)
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
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Dec 21, 2011
well I think it all depends on how everyone does. a clean Ashley can't beat a clean Alissa. and who knows about mirai.

A clean Ashley can't beat a clean Mirai either. However, at this time, it might be fair to say Ashley has a far greater shot at being clean than Mirai.

As for the next big star, I agree it is most likely either Gracie, Mirai (if she ever miraculously OMG gets her act together) or else someone yet unknown.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
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Dec 3, 2011
I hope Gracie either does not read the internet hype or has really strong shoulders to carry all the expectations being heaped on her back right now. FSU posters are suggesting she be sent to senior worlds this year. And Hersh suggested a month ago that she could win gold in Sochi.

That's a lot of hype for a girl that hasn't skated a single senior level competition.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
I hope Gracie either does not read the internet hype or has really strong shoulders to carry all the expectations being heaped on her back right now. FSU posters are suggesting she be sent to senior worlds this year. And Hersh suggested a month ago that she could win gold in Sochi.

That's a lot of hype for a girl that hasn't skated a single senior level competition.

Tuktamysheva won her first 3 senior competitions including 2 Grand Prix events. If the U.S. lacks ambition, simply helps the Russians and I'm sure they won't be complaining about that. The faint hearted don't tend to become champions. She either has it or she hasn't and when she makes her debut or when the hype starts will make very little difference in the long run as to whether she becomes a champion or not. Do you seriously think Sonja Henie, Oksana Baiul, Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, or Tuk herself adopted that attitude? The first four of those names were younger than Gold is now when they became Olympic champions...
 
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louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
I did not say she doesn't have talent or that she won't do well. But if she buys into the current hype (or anyone in her immediate circle does), it may mentally derail her.

That said, U.S. fans seem to get on a new junior bandwagon every single year. It seems there is always a junior lady who is going to conquer the world the moment she sets a blade on senior ice. We've been down this road. And they tend not to pan out. So I remain cautious with my excitement.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
That said, U.S. fans seem to get on a new junior bandwagon every single year. It seems there is always a junior lady who is going to conquer the world the moment she sets a blade on senior ice. We've been down this road. And they tend not to pan out. So I remain cautious with my excitement.

That's right and that can be a problem. Moreover, whether Gold merits a place really depends on how well the senior ladies skate
 
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Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Ashley hasn't been to Worlds or Four Continents since 2008. She's always done reasonably well in the GP but if she *finally* lands on the World Team this weekend, we'll see what she's made of when she's finally competing in a major competition.

Expecting another Kwan-like or Sasha-esque US star in the near future is probably not very likely. Though things can change quickly, I guess, it only takes one good 'break-through' season for one of the newbies and who knows what will happen.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
I'm inclined to say that Gold does not merit a place at senior worlds regardless of how the senior ladies perform. She doesn't have senior programs and adding time and choreography to her LP along with the change in music cuts that would require is not realistic in just two months. Plus she has never skated in a single senior event.

She, her parents, and her coaching team likely had reasons for deciding that she should remain in juniors this season. After all, she has the skills to pass a senior test, and she is old enough. Whatever the reasons, I doubt that they have suddenly changed their minds.
 
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pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
No. The best she can do at this point is somehow mount a charge that gives her a respectable Flatt like career and even that is a long shot. At age 20 and after years of being overshadowed in the U.S by Flatt, Zhang, Czisny, and Nagasu, none of whom even became stars outside the U.S themselves, making it onto the World team and placing somewhere around 8th at Worlds this year would be a major victory for her and something to build from. As others have noted she probably has to go clean and have others mess up just to even make the team with 2 spots.

IMO Wagner's peak as a skater was at Nationals in 2008 where she skated clean and spectacular short and long programs with a triple lutz-triple loop in both, amazing to think considering she can barely do a proper triple lutz solo in ensuing years. Yet she still placed only 3rd behind Nagasu who had major mistakes and Flatt who is supposed to be easy to beat clean on clean. It is hard to imagine her even clean reaching that same level considering she doesnt do any triple-
triples now and some of her jumps get edge calls, yet that is all that kind of skating gave her then.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I did not say she doesn't have talent or that she won't do well. But if she buys into the current hype (or anyone in her immediate circle does), it may mentally derail her.

That said, U.S. fans seem to get on a new junior bandwagon every single year. It seems there is always a junior lady who is going to conquer the world the moment she sets a blade on senior ice. We've been down this road. And they tend not to pan out. So I remain cautious with my excitement.

Exactly!
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Ashley's been around for a LONG time. She's won a few GP medals, but hasn't really broken through internationally at a major competition. ISU judges just aren't that impressed by her. So no, I don't think she's going to be the next big thing.

While I agree, keep in mind that Czisny has been around even LONGER. She was competing during the height of the Kwan/Cohen rivalry! She competed senior nats since 2002 (?), didn't win her first medal until 2007, and actually won in 2009.

Not everyone peaks at 16 or 17.
 

Chris_E

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
While I agree, keep in mind that Czisny has been around even LONGER. She was competing during the height of the Kwan/Cohen rivalry! She competed senior nats since 2002 (?), didn't win her first medal until 2007, and actually won in 2009.

Not everyone peaks at 16 or 17.

Exactly! I think as Ashley gets older and matures she'll realize what aspects of her skating she needs to improve and work harder, she clearly has the drive and has already made clear improvement.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
See article

Did well in the Grand Prix season, but needs to improve further if going to make more of an impact.

Since I started this thread several days ago and wrote the above post, Ashley has shown with her fantastic performance at U.S Nationals that in the 2 months since her performances at the NHK Trophy and Skate Canada, she has made further significant progress. NHK and Skate Canada illustrated that under her new coach, John Nicks, she had improved enormously since last season. With her win at U.S. Nationals and the further improvement that it is evident that she has made since then, I think she has shown that she is now a serious contender at a World level. Moreover, her career development strikes me as being very similar to skaters such as Joannie Rochette, Maria Butyrskaya, and Shizuka Arakawa. Those three only started to make an impact at a World level once they were past the age of 20. I think that the incredible progress that Wagner has made under John Nicks this season indicates that likewise she can too. And look at Akiko Suzuki - she has only started to make an impact at a world level in the last few years and she is now in her mid-20's. Just goes to show that these days, with dedication and determination, skaters can now remain competitive in to their late 20's. And look at which 29 year old has just won the European Championships - Plushenko!
 
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tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Since I started this thread several days ago and wrote the above post, Ashley has shown with her fantastic performance at U.S Nationals that in the 2 months since her performances at the NHK Trophy and Skate Canada, she has made further significant progress. NHK and Skate Canada illustrated that under her new coach, John Nicks, she had improved enormously since last season. With her win at U.S. Nationals and the further improvement that it is evident that she has made since then, I think she has shown that she is now a serious contender at a World level. Moreover, her career development strikes me as being very similar to skaters such as Joannie Rochette, Maria Butyrskaya, and Shizuka Arakawa. Those three only started to make an impact at a World level once they were past the age of 20. I think that the incredible progress that Wagner has made under John Nicks this season indicates that likewise she can too. And look at Akiko Suzuki - she has only started to make an impact at a world level in the last few years and she is now in her mid-20's.

I would add to this that, unlike a lot of the other US ladies, this is obviously something she REALLY wants and has the drive to do. It is truly, evidently, her main or only goal or desire at this point. I know some think she has an ego, and maybe she does, but she also has drive and I think that should not be discounted or underestimated.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
I knew she was going to win. I was surprised to see so many people thinking they'd give it to Alissa or mirai, no matter what, as in the past. She has broken thru the ceiling, and I think she will have the confidence to skate well at worlds. I still think the intl judges will go with mao, akiko, carolina, alissa even with falls over a clean ashley. Some people don't think she is world class, but I think she can be if she skates her best. i was surprised to see her tackle black swan as she is so athletic/ripped looking, not balletic. ballerinas don't develop their upper bodies like Ash does, so that detracts a bit from the ballerina look. So will she ever become a world champion? I think not. But given the current US ladies, I think she has been underscored in past years. She was not a darling of the judges. She earns what she gets. I am glad she won, it was deserved.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I would add to this that, unlike a lot of the other US ladies, this is obviously something she REALLY wants and has the drive to do. It is truly, evidently, her main or only goal or desire at this point. I know some think she has an ego, and maybe she does, but she also has drive and I think that should not be discounted or underestimated.

Yes, this is true. She doesn't seem to be pursuing school or any other hobby seriously right now (which is fine, probably even good for her skating career!).
 
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