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Thread: Can Ashley Wagner be U.S. figure skating's next star?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I had hope in 2010 but Nagasu tanked...

    I had hope last year but Flatt bombed...

    I think I've given up at this point and think we're relegated to second-rate status in ladies behind Japan, and soon, perhaps Russia.

    If Czisny/Wagner can prove me wrong, however- great. And I sincerely hope they do.
    I can see Czisny winning a bronze if she puts it together, in which case 3 spots should be easy. If not I could see a combination of 5th and 7th, 5th and 8th, sort of thing being well doable.

  2. #32
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    Czisny was *was* pretty close to bronze last year. If she'd made a few mistakes less, I think she could have had it... She *did* win the 2010 GPF, but she'll have to be the confident Alissa we saw at the beginning of the season.

    With 3 spots the US can afford one of their contestants to have an 'off' day. With only 2 they both have to deliver.

  3. #33
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    heh

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Ashley's been around for a LONG time. She's won a few GP medals, but hasn't really broken through internationally at a major competition. ISU judges just aren't that impressed by her. So no, I don't think she's going to be the next big thing. IMO, Gracie Gold has the vest shot at that.
    I hope this chuckm is eating a little crow this morning...

  4. #34
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    Well, but this win was a NATIONAL championship. That post seems like the poster doubts her INTERNATIONAL ability. We shall see on that one...

  5. #35
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    Exactly. Winning Nationals is huge for Wagner, but it doesnt disprove anything chuckm said.

  6. #36
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    Although I'm turned off by Wagner's personality, I do believe she has certain 'star' quality. This program was nicely choreographed. I think international judges will give her a second look if she keeps on skating clean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    I knew she was going to win. I was surprised to see so many people thinking they'd give it to Alissa or mirai, no matter what, as in the past. She has broken thru the ceiling, and I think she will have the confidence to skate well at worlds. I still think the intl judges will go with mao, akiko, carolina, alissa even with falls over a clean ashley. Some people don't think she is world class, but I think she can be if she skates her best. i was surprised to see her tackle black swan as she is so athletic/ripped looking, not balletic. ballerinas don't develop their upper bodies like Ash does, so that detracts a bit from the ballerina look. So will she ever become a world champion? I think not. But given the current US ladies, I think she has been underscored in past years. She was not a darling of the judges. She earns what she gets. I am glad she won, it was deserved.
    One thing I like about Ashley is that she isn't a light, delicate sylph. That's the reason I also like Agnes Z. It's wonderful to see variety among competitors. Femininity includes muscles, too! Though I love exquisiteness as much as the next person (Sasha being one of my favorites, for example), a consistent diet of it would be sooo boring.

    As someone else pointed out, there has recently been a spate of ladies who not only have skated well into their twenties but have actually peaked after they turned twenty. This is a heartening development. If Ashley is going to be that sort of skater, then my hat's off to her. By this time, we should all realize that a skating fan can never say never. But then, we should have learned that with Paul Wylie and Todd Eldredge.

  8. #38
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    Ashley has the attitude of a champion, especially this year. She has worked REALLY hard and it shows. physically she is in great shape and she has always had underrated musicality and spins. Ashely very rarely bombs a free skate....she has often made small errors like two-foots and edge calls, but falls and pops are not that common. Her speed is fantastic, the way she flew into that salchow there was no way she could have controlled it, thus the pop. I hope she can keep this up at worlds and receive appropriate scores for it...that LP is simply Sasha-like.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateflower View Post
    Although I'm turned off by Wagner's personality, I do believe she has certain 'star' quality. This program was nicely choreographed. I think international judges will give her a second look if she keeps on skating clean.
    What is it about her personality that turns you off?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    One thing I like about Ashley is that she isn't a light, delicate sylph. That's the reason I also like Agnes Z. It's wonderful to see variety among competitors. Femininity includes muscles, too! Though I love exquisiteness as much as the next person (Sasha being one of my favorites, for example), a consistent diet of it would be sooo boring.

    As someone else pointed out, there has recently been a spate of ladies who not only have skated well into their twenties but have actually peaked after they turned twenty. This is a heartening development. If Ashley is going to be that sort of skater, then my hat's off to her. By this time, we should all realize that a skating fan can never say never. But then, we should have learned that with Paul Wylie and Todd Eldredge.
    All good points Olympia. I think i found Agnes look just this year more masculine because she is tall, angular, muscles, no fat, no breasts and slicked back hair ala victor/victoria. Other years she did not strike me as masculine. Then there are jumps so big, many men would be put to shame. she is a great jumper, and i ike her upbeat, fast jazzy programs, but the traditional ice princess look and music will elude her. I like her for what she is, but i can't say, "wow, what beautiful graceful skating," no matter how good the jumps. I think skaters like Tonya, Midori, Irina,Bonaly were all quite interesting and talented, but so athletic that they lacked the ballet lines of the sport I admire. There is a reason they all give breaks to Alisa, And the female skaters who have her attributes. Carolina K is winning with watered down content. She looks stunnung and she has grace and speed. It's amazing in person they all say. But people change and develop and above all, conform to what a lady looks like in skating to win. If they want to win, there is an ideal - Alissa is it with her pink glam, we heard 3 times yesterday. Her skating is so gracefully feminine and would still be if she skated in a phantom mask. She moves with a feminine grace I like. I think Sasha's recent show programs with no jumps are very watchable. The skating is beautiful. Yes, she is tiny, like Mao the butterfly. But Scott touted Alissa three times with "physical beauty" being part of a ladies champion. Like it or not, it is almost always an ice princess sport. Agnes had a great SP. Her Lp did not do much for me outside the huge, smooth jumps. But to each her own.

    I personally never found male or female body builders attractive. Like it or not, I suspect there is a gene or neuron that identifies masculine as muscular and feminine as soft. The ripped look is becoming important in skating with the women. In Witt's day, I'll bet there was not much upper body work, so feminine ideal is changing in the media.

    No offense to Agnes ubers. I like her spunk and her awesome jumps. It will be interesting to see how far she goes. I think she will be a US Champion one day soon.
    Last edited by skateluvr; 01-29-2012 at 09:20 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    Ashley has the attitude of a champion, especially this year. She has worked REALLY hard and it shows. physically she is in great shape and she has always had underrated musicality and spins. Ashely very rarely bombs a free skate....she has often made small errors like two-foots and edge calls, but falls and pops are not that common. Her speed is fantastic, the way she flew into that salchow there was no way she could have controlled it, thus the pop. I hope she can keep this up at worlds and receive appropriate scores for it...that LP is simply Sasha-like.
    I do not feel much similarity with Sasha here. Sasha is the epitome of "dainty" even with pounds on, she skates is a balletic/rhyth typemic gymnastic way, grace personified with the tiny poinetd toes in jumps. Sasha made mistakes, but her swan was far more swan like, refined and delicate, yet fiery. Sasha is an artist on the ice, and even with no jumps, she is still astounding at times. Ashley did very well and I liked her best of the US ladies this year and also feel she was under rated and underscored in the past. I am not sure the intl judges will flip for her unless she brings a consistent 3x3. That will help greatly. She skates as she talks, with much assertion, strength and determination. She looks like an athlete in her tutu costume, not a ballerina as she is so muscled all over.

    I'd love Ashley to prove me wrong about her standing with intl judges. I did not see her get the scores she deserved on the GP. I would have been more generous. This worlds is about the overcomers who are at the end of their comp. years. The judges will have sympathy for Mao, Carolina, Alissa and Akiko, and love these ladies skating. As for Mao, she's not at the end..she can do it til Sochi. I truly expect another podium finish for her, though the color I have no clue about. It seems politics will put one of those amazing Russian girl/women on the podium. Russia has three skaters now who i think are far better than Irina (adorable gal) and look at her success? Will they all get held up? Not possible, but these are the favorites. Ashley may be someone who gets a a bit screwed internationally. I am happy she performed as I knew she could. I enjoy her, and two years from now we might see a transformed even more woman who skates Black Swan very differently. I looked at Caroline Zhang and was amazed.

    I still can't believe she was not bronze. It wasn't gigantic but that was a triple loop/triple loop! Shades of Tara! As for Paul Wylie, he had the goods but no confidence and he was at Harvard, Olympia, was it? His earlier skates show the stretch and body line/posture of a shorter John Curry. He was fighting demons but for raw talent, I put him up there with the great men of all time. He is a man, who manages grace, style, finesse and out right perfection of line while never looking less than masculine. I like that.

    Well, I would love for Ash or Alissa or any of them to have the stars align and make me eat my words as they get crowned World Champion. Too bad we cannot put Ashley's drive into Alissa's head!
    Last edited by skateluvr; 01-29-2012 at 09:43 PM.

  12. #42
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    Ashley had so many doublefooted jumps in her program and wasn't penalized enough. Her PCS is a joke.
    She's quite unlikable in real life as well, confirmed my suspicion about her.

  13. #43
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    I bet she is a sweetie in real life.

  14. #44
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    I think we're all waiting for Ashley to break through internationally. She always seems to skate relatively clean, but the international judges just aren't that impressed..
    Also, she strikes me as someone who always tries so incredibly hard - choreography, performance, jumps, costumes.. Each movement is all very packaged and it looks that way. Sometimes subtlety is a good thing. Less is more..

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    Quote Originally Posted by psbfan01 View Post
    I hope this chuckm is eating a little crow this morning...
    Nope. I said Ashley hasn't reached the top level INTERNATIONALLY. Capisce?

    Ashley won Nationals because she skated better than Alissa Czisny last night---Alissa hasn't successfully defended her US Championship in the past, and this time was no exception. Defeating Alissa doesn't carry much weight internationally. It's how well ASHLEY performs that will count at Worlds.

    As pretty as Ashley's Nationals performance was, it was not without flaws: she doublefooted 3 triples and she flutzes. She will be facing ladies who have 3/3s and/or PCS scores consistently in the 7s, and who have medaled at Worlds and/or Euros. She has her work cut out for her.
    Last edited by chuckm; 01-29-2012 at 11:30 PM.

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