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Thread: Triple Lutz and flip jumps in the Ladies SP

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Have there? Do you mean number of skaters who have attempted each or are you also taking into account the number of times they have attempted?

    For 3Lo+3Lo I can think of
    Lipinski,
    Joanne Carter (maybe only once, nontelevised)
    S. Hughes (ditto)
    C. Zhang

    For 3Lz+3Lo
    Slutskaya
    Arakawa?
    Ando

    Kwan attempted it once but didn't come close

    I'm probably missing one or more for each of those combos
    Amelie Lacoste attempted 3Lo-3Lo at a JGP back in 2005 and at Skate Canada in 2010.

    For 3lz-3lo we all know Sotnikova has attempted several times.
    Last edited by champs; 02-03-2012 at 01:12 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Gracie Gold has good edges on both flip and lutz without underrotation, and with the ability to tack a 3T on either, which is perhaps why US fans get so excited about her, since it is so rare in this country.
    At US Nationals also

    SP
    http://www.usfigureskating.org/leade...6/results.html
    3F3T
    3Lz (0 GOE)
    I can't believe I called that one. I remember coming back from the Jr. Ladies SP, and went online and said I was underwhelmed by Gracie's jumps. I said I wouldn't give her Lutz any positive GOE, not enough height, no flow coming out, etc... Looks like the judges agreed. I guess we're all conditioned to girls not having true lutz, so when one has one, suddenly it's a big deal.

    Of all the girls competing, the one with the best lutz, and very consistent at it, is Miki Ando.
    Agnes' lutz is also impressive.

  3. #18
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Ando doesn't have a flip, though, it gets an "e" call. Agnes' flip is less than consistent as well

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Ando doesn't have a flip, though, it gets an "e" call. Agnes' flip is less than consistent as well
    Ando lipped prior to 2008. She fixed her flip after 2008.
    The few times she put it out, she never got the "e" call.

    World 2009 SP.
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._SP_Scores.pdf

    2010 Cup of Russia SP
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._SP_Scores.pdf

    2010 Cup of China SP
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SP_Scores.pdf

    2010 GPF SP
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SP_Scores.pdf

    After that, she didn't put the flip in the SP anymore. Required steps prior to the flip caused a lot of problem for her, especially for a jump that she relearned the correct technique.

  5. #20
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Let me clarify, I meant she no longer included it in the SP when the SoV was changed...

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Have there? Do you mean number of skaters who have attempted each or are you also taking into account the number of times they have attempted?

    For 3Lo+3Lo I can think of
    Lipinski,
    Joanne Carter (maybe only once, nontelevised)
    S. Hughes (ditto)
    C. Zhang

    For 3Lz+3Lo
    Slutskaya
    Arakawa?
    Ando

    Kwan attempted it once but didn't come close

    I'm probably missing one or more for each of those combos


    Or did you mean 3Lz+3T? Definitely more attempts, and successes, at that one
    Off the top of my head: Slutskaya, Ando, Arakawa, Sotnikova, Wagner, all televised. Not to mention, each--especially Slutskaya and Sotnikova--attempted this combo several times.

    As for the 3Lo+3Lo, heck I can't remember any lady off the top of my head besides Lipinski and Zhang who tried it in a televised competition, let alone succeeded several times. And that's my point. Difficulty varies by skater and frequency of success/attempt is not inversely proportional to difficulty. There's been several 3A+2T attempts (and successes), because of Mao, yet one would hardly say that combo is generally "easier" than a 3Lo+3Lo.

  7. #22
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    I can't believe I called that one. I remember coming back from the Jr. Ladies SP, and went online and said I was underwhelmed by Gracie's jumps. I said I wouldn't give her Lutz any positive GOE, not enough height, no flow coming out, etc... Looks like the judges agreed. I guess we're all conditioned to girls not having true lutz, so when one has one, suddenly it's a big deal.

    Of all the girls competing, the one with the best lutz, and very consistent at it, is Miki Ando.
    Agnes' lutz is also impressive.
    Miki Ando is still competing? I thought she was on break this season.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Miki Ando is still competing? I thought she was on break this season.
    She'll be back next season, right? I count her as active.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    The actual list is smaller than that. Kwan had a mild Flutz. Ito Lipped. Few would have survived the scrutiny of today's tech panel. Even Yuna's flat-edged Flip got called "e" occasionally in the '09 season, ruining her confidence in that jump.



    IIRC, (Sorry, if my memory is wrong) Yuna has never got called "e" for the flat-edged Flip. She just got "!" only once. And the judges gave her huge GOES to the 3F-3T because they thought the combination was good. So the flat edge has not given her any trouble so far as she's got no deduction for it. Correct me if my memory is wrong.
    Last edited by Hanaka; 02-07-2012 at 07:30 AM.

  10. #25
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanaka View Post
    IIRC, (Sorry, if my memory is wrong) Yuna has never got called "e" for the flat-edged Flip. She just got "!" only once. And the judges gave her huge GOES to the 3F-3T because they thought the combination was good. So the flat edge has not given her any trouble so far as she's got no deduction for it. Correct me if my memory is wrong.
    She got both edge calls and attention marks during the 08-09 season, specifically during the following competitions: 2008 Cup of China, 2009 4CC, and 2009 Worlds. She didn't change it during the pivotal 2009 season, which was her big chance to win Worlds. But over the summer of 2009 going into the Olympic season, she did alter her technique to make it more an inside and less flat edge, which affected her confidence. Thereafter that jump became unreliable, whereas before it used to be among her most solid jumps. Interestingly enough, it was this move to adjust her Flip technique that forced her to upgrade her triple-triple to 3Lz+3T.

    Funny how the CoP's tech scrutiny works--like Mao abandoning the Lutz and going for the riskier 3A combos at the time.

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