01-29-2012, 01:25 AM
Rejoicing in the land of Kwan
01-29-2012, 01:43 AM
well, for a time (and for the most important time) brian orser made YNK a happy (or at least happier) skater. he's done wonders for elene G as well. is christina going to harvard or deferring to skate with brian as her coach? even if brian could make mirai happier skating, so that she would find other reasons to work at it beside the type-A relentless drive to be the absolute best, would he take her with christina gao already his student?
Originally Posted by kwanatic
i understand where you're coming from, but i will wait til the moment mirai finds it. she's got something that keeps me watching.
ETA: re weakankles (sp?) comment--i find ashley's staccato arm movements during the spiral a detraction from the rest of her program as well. i'm glad i wasn't the only person to think this
Last edited by skfan; 01-29-2012 at 01:46 AM.
01-29-2012, 01:45 AM
I agree with one of the posters about how Sandra was being a bit harsh about Mirai. Whenever Alissa would bomb her jumps a couple of years back the commentators always found something positive to say about her like her spins are beautiful, she's a beautiful skater if only she could put it together. It sounded like Sandra was angry and frustrated at Mirai.
On another note why are the ladies having problems with the 2A, Christina, Caroline, Alissa. Caroline's performance really made me smile. She fought through the whole thing. If she could fix the lutz it would be even more amazing. It reminds me of Asada's comeback story. The two worked so hard to fix their technique issues. For Agnes I wouldn't call her program after the fall on the lutz a melt down. Compared to what she did on the GP circuit this was quite good.
Last edited by FTnoona; 01-29-2012 at 02:20 AM.
01-29-2012, 02:05 AM
Sandra may be harsh with Mirai, but her comments reflect many of our frustrations with her. Commentators find nice things to say about Alyssa because even when she bombs, and I felt like she bombed tonight, her spins are among the best in the world and she doesn't let the performance go. While I'm tired of Alyssa always making the world team even when she bombs, at least she tries from beginning to end. So many of these skaters look ready to run off the ice halfway through their error-filled programs.
01-29-2012, 02:12 AM
Couldn't agree more... right down to needs to move on from Frank and perhaps to Rafael...
Originally Posted by kwanatic
01-29-2012, 02:32 AM
Holy Cow just logged on after watching it on NBC here on the West Coast and am shocked to see 26 Pages, yegods!
Will read this loooooooooooong thread after I post my immediate thoughts on what I just saw for the last 2 hrs:
Rachael Flatt ~ this is what I meant when I said one has to see her skate live, as I did in 2010 at Skate America, she lights up the crowd like a firefly, like nobody else! FlattFan, I envy you, I truly do. Only you in the crowd know what it's truly like to see her skate live (not surprised with the SO, she got one too at 2010 SA). Btw, I was overcome with awe upon seeing that spectacular outfit she wore, like a nestful of colorful feathers. Oh, Rach, if you really want it, and I mean *want it*, as in capturing a medal at Worlds (& maybe even the Olympics) you just need to overhaul your body and get buff like Joannie Rochette because you have everything you need to not only be #1 in the USA, but also the World. But if you're satisfied with what you have now, and that seems to be the case, as evidenced by what the commentators said (i.e. "I've realized all my dreams, and now I'm just here to have fun", then I wish you well. It truly was a joy to watch you skate.
Christina Gao ~ nice solid skate, you should be proud of yourself, but I think you can do even better with a better vehicle to display your talents. Jmho.
Mirai Nagasu ~ what can I say that hasn't already been said? Neither one of your programs this year showed off your many talents, one of which is your gamine smile and joie de vivre, hopefully you too get the perfect vehicle(s) to show off your many talents as well next year. To be honest the whole time you were skating I kept seeing one of my all-time favorites, Oksana Baiul, as you remind me of her during her professional career.
Caroline Zhang ~ the magic continued tonight, little one, you did it! Though I prefer your SP more, which I felt really showcased all your new fabulous improvements, like that phenomenal 3R/3R combo. Still, your joy made me get misty-eyed, great job!
Ashley Wagner ~ lol, I was sitting down watching everybody else until you came on, that's when I jumped up & cheered & got into your program. Wow, you just sold it! As I said when I saw it for the very first time this Fall, your program of "Swan Lake" is my 2nd favorite of all-time, Oksana Baiul 1st. (:^) And I literally got shivers & teared up when you presented that fabulous spiral sequence with such verve, command, and total control, My God I honestly thought I was seeing Natalie Portman in the Black Swan!!!!!! Both you & Rachael Flatt had the best programs imho, and you both brought the audience to their feet, not surprisingly. Final word, I've always said I thought you should have won in 2008, and now you have.
Alissa Czisny ~ she really is another skater from yesteryear, as the commentators said "in the past Alissa would have let those mistakes do her in", but not anymore, not anymore! You maintained your newfound calm, cool, collected composure, and looked like a Regal Queen out there. Posture, positions, superb, nothing need more be said. My only shock, I honestly thought the judges would have put you ahead of Ashley...
Agnes Zawadski ~ I was so pumped from how well your group did (as well as Rachael) that I was hoping & praying that you too would bring it. And after the opening 3/2 combo. I thought it just may be your night, even after the mistake on the 3L I was hoping you would finish strong and skate clean the rest of the performance, but that was too much to ask for one so young & inexperienced. As Scott Hamilton said "you're too great not to be here every year; winning the SP says it all". ITA. And, hey, you won pewter last year, and now bronze this year, that kind of trajectory says you're going to win silver next year and gold in 2014.
NICE NIGHT OF SKATING, THANKS LADIES!
01-29-2012, 02:35 AM
Tired...so here were my impressions as said on FSU:
"First off, congrats to Wagner and good for her for backing up the talk.
Second, congrats to Zhang for a comeback few thought was possible.
Flatt went out there and did herself proud- even though she finished only 6th after being in the top 2 four years in a row, after what she's been through...and realizing it could have been much worse the way she's been skating.
Zawadzki- well, this is a good learning experience for her but she has what it takes and I hope she does not get discouraged by what happened tonight. If anything, it's a triumph for her...she made herself known by that SP on Thursday night, and it's a real tough position to a) be the leader after the SP and b) to skate last. At least I hope she gets a Four Continents trip out of it.
Gao- good to finally see her get stronger and lose some of that shyness I saw earlier.
Czisny- despite the shaky FS, she hung on and didn't let the mistakes derail the performance and that's critical. The ability to fight for every point is the cornerstone of this system. That said, she's going to need to find those jumps pretty soon if she wants to contend for a world medal. This is probably her best shot at one! She needs to shake off tonight, rest up a bit and train for worlds. I don't think she needs to go to 4CC but I'm hearing she'll go anyway.
Nagasu- oh man. What to say, what to do? She looked completely distracted and that's unfortunate. I really think it's a combination of mental issues and being undertrained- her training situation just isn't working out for her and I think ultimately she'll need to leave Carroll and find a more consistent training regimen. The status quo just isn't working...and it would be ultimate shame if this is how her career ends..."
01-29-2012, 02:48 AM
I'm just so happy to be there. She did wonderfully. During warm up, she doubled the flip, but landed the lutz. Then doubled another jump. I thought it was going to be bad.
Originally Posted by Nadine
In the actual program, she only made one mistake on the double flip. Standing O. Biggest reaction from the crowd for sure. They stood up longer for her than for the eventual winner. I'm not sure if the crowd knew about her recent struggle but they seemed to be so supportive after she was done. It was a very sweet moment. She can walk away from the sport with her head held high. From not able to land flip and lutz to putting both in the short and long programs, kudo to her work ethic and her determination. What a girl!
01-29-2012, 03:08 AM
Some notes from watching all of them lives.
Rachael was slower today than yesterday. Her back is very stiff, which makes her spins particularly average. She does keep her speed throughout, and you can see she's attacking all of her elements. Very determined. College is demanding. She's doing both and doing an admirable job. Great girl.
Vanessa. During warm up, she did a triple lutz right in front of me. It looked like a real lutz. No flutzing. During the program, she flutzed a bit. Good sign. Need better programs. Her footwork is still the bet of the bunch. Ice coverage was not so good compare to the other girls.
Christina Gao. She fell twice on the lutz during warm up. Had some problem with the flip as well. I seriously thought she was going to bomb. Her axel is not good. Need a lot of work on that jump. She seemed slower today than she was in the SP.
Mirai. She was much faster up until the triple flutz-3combo. Then she was crawling after that. Her face showed how scared she was. Must be the slowest girl after the 3-jumps combo. She needs to learn to put everything behind her and continue to compete in the future. It was really bad. Really really bad. She was even slower than junior girls. And she flutzed very badly. She did one right in front of me as well. I thought she kinda fixed that jump and starting to get lip calls instead. What happened to that?
Alissa. I find her dress distasteful. Her long program isn't a program. It was cross-overs and elements. Spins aren't choreography. 2Steps aren't choreography. We need to stop giving her 7s and 8s for transitions and choreography. She just can't handle them. Overscored for that kind of program. Will not get close to that score in the international scene. Maybe 95-100 max.
Ashley. First of all, she's the deserved winner. I find her score outrageous. Her PCS put her at Kostner level. Her TES was just too high. I thought at least 3-4 jumps were two-footed. The same program at international competition will probably net her about 105.
Caroline Zhang. WOW!!! I'm impressed. Her only mistake in both programs was the step out on the flip. Should have been second here. They lowballed her again.
Agnes. Did a beautiful lutz right in front of me during warm up. Looked strong. Then fell apart. Maybe nerve got to her. I think she's not ready after this LP. She would just bomb at the Worlds.
(Mirai can be fast. She was fast the first 40 second of her programs.)
01-29-2012, 04:00 AM
Whoa, just got through reading this entire thread and am pooped.
And now I see your lovely comments, FlattFan, and am happy for you! Btw, what stood out to me more than anything else after reading this thread was the hypocrisy, now come the "nice" comments about Rachael. Yeah, as long as she's not at nor near the top challenging one's favorites it's okay to be saccharine sweet, ugh. F-that. Where the he(double ll) were these people when you & me were holding hands last year on here when Rachael was skating at the GPF. Yeah, right. Anyhow, just needed to get that off my chest. And I'm with you, she can hold her head high anytime she chooses to walk away from this sport. What a gal, what a mind, what a focus, and what a joy it is to watch her skate!
Last note, I've been thinking about the Worlds Team, hmmm. Yeah, I agree with you FlattFan, Agnes is not ready, but I'm not so sure about Gracie Gold? Big question mark there. Now she's a US Jr. National Champion, just like Agnes was in 2010, then she went on to become a Jr. World Silver Medalist in 2010 and a Jr. World Bronze Medalist in 2011, not to mention a US Sr. Pewter Medalist in 2011 (her senior debut btw) and now a US Sr. Bronze Medalist in 2012. After looking at Agnes record, I think it may be good to send Gracie Gold to 4CC (Jr. Worlds is a given), and see how she fares. If she does well there, meaning places above both Ashley & Alissa, only then would I put her on the team for Sr. Worlds. Jmho.
NOW ONTO THE MEN, YEAHHHHHHHHHH, THIS IS THE ONE I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
01-29-2012, 04:01 AM
Bona Fide Member
Alissa was never a very good jumper (still isn't) but always tried her best. I think people were less harsh on Alissa because their expectations were frankly less. We know that Alissa is not somehow going to become a great jumper at this state in her career. In contrast Mirai is clearly extremely talented and clearly can do it all. But seems to lack motivation/will. And I think that's why people are harder on Mirai.
Originally Posted by FTnoona
And I'm sorry but I find the whole Mirai needs Evan to motivate her to be more than a bit much. Sure having a training partner can be great; but great athletes find multiple ways to keep themselves motivated. One would think that being fourth at the Olympics would have been more than enough motivation for Mirai.
01-29-2012, 04:11 AM
Agreed. I'm no fan but she was joyful out there tonight, truly performed. Best costume she's ever worn, beautiful stained glass tones.
Originally Posted by jcoates
I think "Firebird" is the best LP she's ever done. It truly suits her style.
That's the best, most flattering dress I've ever seen on Rachael. I LOVED it and I was happy for her that she did such a great job in the LP to pull up.
Originally Posted by Olympia
Christina Gao seems all limbs. Once she grows into her body she should improve loads.
Ashley deserved the win, her programs have really been my favorite this year. Alissa was shaky but she does get lots of love from international judges so I'm glad she made top 2.
Agnes has HUGE jumps. Once she gets consistent she should be right up there. Caroline REBORN! What a great job to silence the doubters!
Caroline's resurgence gives me hope for Mirai who is clearly in some kind of a slump. I was devastated for her but I'm not giving up on her. Reports all weak were that she was blazing through practices so I don't think it's a physical issue with her. I think it's mental and emotional. She's got to find her mojo again. And she's got to get the numbers in which I don't think she can possibly be doing with a 4 hour commute to and from Frank's rink each day, and going from one rink to the other, sometimes apparently training alone. Not good! I think she needs a sports psycholigist to help her work out her demons. I believe Mirai will get it together and come back even stronger. She's only 18. There's still time.
Originally Posted by Art&Sport
THIS! I can't stand Mirai's programs this year, especially her LP. I think it's worse than her Geisha number. When she was into it she really brought it to life. And she needs an SP that will echo or better the magic of her 'Pirates' SP.
01-29-2012, 04:18 AM
I think Agnes's large point lead in the SP gave her just enough of a cushion to stay in 3rd.
Originally Posted by icellist
01-29-2012, 04:22 AM
I feel the same way. Ashley had her eyes on the prize and she nailed it. Mirai needs to take the initiative and really set out what she wants to accomplish in the seasons leading up to Sochi if she wants to get a second trip to the Olympics.
Originally Posted by kwanatic
I think that's one of the major underlying issues with Mirai- being undertrained. I think even in the time she worked with Charlene, her training hours were relatively fewer compared to the other skaters. Unfortunately, that's not gonna cut when you don't have that 14 year-old body anymore. At this point, she really needs to reassess her training situation because crisscrossing from rink to rink is not smart at all. Either she moves closer to Carroll so she can get more consistent training time with him or she go to another coach closer to where she lives. It's just not efficient and productive enough to continue to train the way she does.
Originally Posted by R.D.
Anyways, congrats to Ashley! How awesome and wonderful to see her vision come to fruition. She's such a hard worker and it's such a well deserved title. It's also great to see John's knack for details polishing up some of Ashley's rough edges
And I'm super happy for Caroline. I hope the U.S. sends her to 4CC. I admire her so much for working her butt off reworking her technique and enduring some tough seasons.
Last edited by camion; 01-29-2012 at 04:34 AM.
01-29-2012, 04:41 AM
[QUOTE=WeakAnkles;611351] *Respectfully clipped for space*
Ashley Wagner. Well yes, all things considered, she did earn that title, but am I the only one who finds some of the choreography a bit strange? I think it may be those periodic staccato arm movements. Softer, dear, softer. And I wish she would hold the endings of her jumps just a tad longer. It would give the program a far more "finished" look. QUOTE]
The staccato arm movements are from the ballet. In the film "Black Swan" you see Natalie Portman's character doing those same staccato 'flapping' arm movements.